Nine years for starving a baby to death

[PropertyFlipper]

I’m struggling to see the justice here. This sorry specimen will be out in five years no doubt. Devastating.
Teen mother, 19, bursts into tears as she is jailed for nine years

Your language is pretty disgusting when you don’t know the full facts of this case. Calling her a bitch?
What?
What she did was fucking unimaginable and disgusting. But it feels like you’re expressing more outrage now, than the level of outrage needed to try and effect change.

@Handsoffstrikesagain is right. Also why are you crying over a mother who killed her child being called a bitch? Who cares, she neglected Asiah to the point of death and you're outraged at the b word?

Murder requires intent. That's why we have the manslaughter charge 🙄

The fact they couldn't prove in court doesn't mean it wasn't murder. I'm not saying it definitely was, but i followed a case in the USA where the parents punched a child to death. They didn't get murder because the prosecutor couldn't prove they intended for him to die. Doesn't make it any better.

All it means is they wanted to secure a conviction and went with a lesser charge.

@Panickingpavlova

Naaah this is a chat forum? Where people chat, it's not your PhD course on child abuse. Unfortunately what we say here means nothing.

Erm, I'm not sure what I've said that would even begin to hint towards that. I'm merely pointing out that the Hang em High brigade bring absolutely nothing to the discussion. It's just Daily Mail levels of thinking. You're right though, none of this makes a blind bit of difference to anything. It's not like policy makers are on here taking notes!

I don't understand why she waited 2 hours to call an ambulance. Do we think Asiah was still alive at that point and she actually waited for her to die? That makes me feel sick but I can't help but think if the child was already dead then rigour mortis would have set in so waiting to call emergency services to 'cover her tracks' was pointless as they'd know immediately that the little girl had been dead for awhile.
I kind of hope that maybe Asiah was unconscious for most of it rather than being awake and suffering horribly for days 😢

@abcdeg

Murder requires intent. That's why we have the manslaughter charge 🙄

The fact they couldn't prove in court doesn't mean it wasn't murder. I'm not saying it definitely was, but i followed a case in the USA where the parents punched a child to death. They didn't get murder because the prosecutor couldn't prove they intended for him to die. Doesn't make it any better.

All it means is they wanted to secure a conviction and went with a lesser charge.

Murder requires action, not inaction.

It terrifies me that some people on this thread are eligible for jury duty.

It’s like name that cliche bingo for the hard of thinking. Let’s see
bleeding heart liberals
stop making excuses
I hope she rots
Steriise her
never let her out
More stop making excuses

Murder requires action, not inaction.

Does it? What about leaving someone on a train track?

Although there was action in this case anyway. She purposely acted by leaving a small child with no food and drink, going out and enjoying herself and then telling lies to people who could have intervened. Yes, it's not stabbing or hitting but there was action and that action led to a death and it was premeditated. She didn't think she'd just nip to the shops and then get delayed for 6 days, she planned a trip for her birthday and didn't ensure that her child would be cared for.

Surely leaving a child alone with no food for six days does sort of imply some intent? If I left an adult locked in a box for a week with no access to food and water I’d not be expecting to find them alive. Maybe not. Either way she had the intent to cause her child horrible suffering. I hope she decides not to have more children.

I think that's what we are saying. It's understandable why they decided not to go for murder but I'm happy to stand by that it was morally murder regardless of the charge and conviction. That's just the way the law works sometimes and we haven't been privy to all the details or to actually speak to and understand the accused which the people involved in the charging and convicting and defending would.

I guess she could have stood trial for murder. But I would think the prosecutors thought there was a greater chance she'd walk free if they couldn't prove the intent to kill.
And the jury are only able to bring a guilty verdict if its proven beyond all reasonable doubt.
So it would have been a riskier course of action for them.

Intent requires an action with deliberate intent,seeking an outcome
and understandingly the likely outcome of your action.

When you watch the videos of her online coming back into the reception area to her flat she isn't even in any kind of rush at all.
It's all very controlled , as if the last six days hadn't happened as if she was a young single carefree individual without any ties at all :(

Naah, not that I'm that interested quite frankly in someone's views who just spouts out "the daily mail" brigade but I'm not sure one seen you offering solutions to what brings a mum to this point, how to deal with the mum in court then what to do after when mum is free again?

One of the most interesting ideas I've read on here is to offer sterilisation or tough on going monitoring?

I also think the people that act on reports from the public need to understand the risk the public takes some times and to make those home visits really count. Eg the police man going into the flat of poor baby Stanley.

There also needs to be a shift to the rights of the child over the rights of the adult around them. The child must come first.

As well as more early years a support.

Those are some of good ideas that have been mooted around I've not seen yours?

Re intent I agree.

I wouldn't have expected either of my dc to manage to stay alive for two days....

We don't even know what she took out in the bin bags.. I assumed the little girl would have been free to roam in the flat but someone mentioned the cot or something

What other outcome would anyone expect?

*Murder requires action, not inaction.

It terrifies me that some people on this thread are eligible for jury duty*.

@Ravenclawsome

Leaving your child alone isn't intent? Six days, no nourishment for a one year old?

I guess anyone can leave a child to be attacked by a dog or drown then. Since it was inaction, it's not murder?

The ONLY reason Verphy wasn't convicted of murder is they can't prove she expected the child to die, most likely because she may have believed somebody would intervene. Of course leaving a 1yo to starve can be murder.

@ElephantOfRisk

Murder requires action, not inaction.

Does it? What about leaving someone on a train track?

Although there was action in this case anyway. She purposely acted by leaving a small child with no food and drink, going out and enjoying herself and then telling lies to people who could have intervened. Yes, it's not stabbing or hitting but there was action and that action led to a death and it was premeditated. She didn't think she'd just nip to the shops and then get delayed for 6 days, she planned a trip for her birthday and didn't ensure that her child would be cared for.

Why I was trying to say, put better. Letting a third party kill your child or extreme neglect CAN well be murder. Otherwise we could all just kill our kids and claim it was an accident.

Locking a child up in a basement and letting them starve wouldn't be murder, because they died of starvation? It makes no sense. (Answer: it might not be classed as murder if it can't be proven death was the end goal).

Even though I do think she intended to harm her baby, I doubt it could be proven so manslaughter was the best course of action here. She's locked up and I hope there's lessons learnt here about how much more funding and training needs to be ploughed in to social services. It's an appalling case

What is very sad to me is that there would of been quite a few other households in that block yet nobody was aware or didn't report the child was on her own. I am assuming she would of been rather distraught at points