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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Nine years for starving a baby to death

999 replies

PropertyFlipper · 06/08/2021 15:07

I’m struggling to see the justice here. This sorry specimen will be out in five years no doubt. Devastating.
Teen mother, 19, bursts into tears as she is jailed for nine years

OP posts:
ZoeCM · 07/08/2021 20:30

@bluewanda

It seems likely the mother’s ‘6 day party’ was being funded by someone. I wouldn’t be surprised if she was being trafficked

I think many posters seem to have a wildly exaggerated idea of how much things cost Confused

Return train tickets to Brighton and Coventry were probably around £40 in total, assuming she paid the fares and didn’t skive. She had dinner in a restaurant with her boyfriend (who probably picked up the tab as it was her birthday). She went to a club night in Elephant and Castle, which would have cost peanuts if she got drunk beforehand at a friend’s flat to save buying drinks in the club. That’s what I did at that age. Let’s say £20.

She then went to a party in Coventry, which I’m presuming was at someone’s house, given there’s no mention of a venue for that - cost to her, £0. And then stayed at a friend’s flat in London before returning to Brighton. There’s no mention of any hotels or anything so I assume she stayed with friends or her boyfriend on the other nights too. Total cost assuming what I’ve said is correct: £60.

I thought the same thing. People were saying on the last thread that the mother must have been trafficked because she wouldn't have been able to afford the partying otherwise, but I really doubt it's that expensive. It also doesn't explain why she didn't alert someone - ANYONE - to the fact that her baby desperately needed food and water.
MichelleScarn · 07/08/2021 20:31

I'm actually getting upset/irate about the constant 'explanations' and buck passing for the mother when posters like @PolkadotClouds are telling us their actual lived experience. (Sorry Polka, for name checking you here)

SinisterBumFacedCat · 07/08/2021 20:31

Of what I have read she had a stable family upbringing but something seems to have triggered her running away from home as a teenager. Before she moved into the flat she lived with her Mum, I wouldn’t be surprised if her mum did the bulk of the childcare. She lived in that flat for only 3 months and left the baby alone 11 times, in the space of 3 months. I don’t know why people are clinging to excuses like she was sex trafficked during those days, when there is no evidence of that or that she was abused by her family. All the actual evidence speaks of someone who was too selfish to care about the well-being of her baby, who probably ignored the kid even when she was there so the child learnt not to cry. I wouldn’t call her evil because it robs her if responsibility. She will be out before she is 30 and will no doubt have another baby to neglect as soon as possible.

HarrisMcCoo · 07/08/2021 20:33

@PolkadotClouds

The mother of that child that died was severely neglected and abused throughout her whole childhood. She had no experience whatsoever of what a healthy functioning family unit should look like. And her brain was damaged by abuse.

If she had brain damage that incapacitated her she would have been deemed unfit to stand trial and sent to a hospital not a prison.

As many posters have said, lots of us survived childhoods similar to this and didn't abuse, neglect or kill our own children. These comments are really offensive.

This a very valid point. She definitely had her wits about her. Made sure she enjoyed her time away, knowing full well her child was left alone for days. There's got to be elements of premeditation here.
ElephantOfRisk · 07/08/2021 20:36

I also understand that while she was away people had enquired where the child was and she continued to lie rather than admit she'd left her and get her help.

Stop blaming her upbringing, her experiences, the child's father.

This is fairly and squarely on her.

Bbq1 · 07/08/2021 20:45

@bluewanda

Even if she was a, 'sex slave'

Surely if she was, it would have come out at the trial and been mentioned in the judge’s comments? Confused

Agreed. I don't for one minute think she was being trafficked. I don't think traffickers take them to club nights and get shout out's. The mind boggles - I wonder, did she even think about her daughter once, even fleetingly during those 6 days and nights? It's sickening to imagine her stuffing her face with donuts etc whilst her little defenceless girl is slowly dying from starvation. Should lock her up and throw away the key.
Maddison12 · 07/08/2021 20:49

All the actual evidence speaks of someone who was too selfish to care about the well-being of her baby, who probably ignored the kid even when she was there so the child learnt not to cry. I wouldn’t call her evil because it robs her if responsibility. She will be out before she is 30 and will no doubt have another baby to neglect as soon as possible.

Well said. She'll be 25 when she's released still a young woman with her whole life ahead of her, when she never gave that baby a chance at life. It's a disgrace.

Blossomtoes · 07/08/2021 20:52

@WeRTheOnesWeHaveBeenWaitingFor

Obviously there is a lot more to this story than just what happened to that poor baby. It seems likely the mother’s ‘6 day party’ was being funded by someone. I wouldn’t be surprised if she was being trafficked or was involved in some nasty stuff. She was abused and the child was likely born from rape. While there is no reasons/excuses for killing an innocent baby I think it’s important to look at the incident as a whole, if for no other reason that future prevention.
I think it’s important to look at the facts and not make stuff up.
hattmancockk · 07/08/2021 20:54

There are no excuses and no explanations but this woman is obviously mentally faulty as it is against all human nature and instincts to do what she did. I hope she manages to get the help she needs whilst in prison.

PolkadotClouds · 07/08/2021 20:56

@MichelleScarn

I'm actually getting upset/irate about the constant 'explanations' and buck passing for the mother when posters like *@PolkadotClouds* are telling us their actual lived experience. (Sorry Polka, for name checking you here)
Don't apologise. I am glad that some posters are reading and listening to what I and others who have lived through these situations are saying. The is no explanation for somebody doing this to a child. I was up half of last night unable to sleep thinking about how she must have suffered and how terrified she would have been.
MarianneUnfaithful · 07/08/2021 20:56

@SinisterBumFacedCat

Of what I have read she had a stable family upbringing but something seems to have triggered her running away from home as a teenager. Before she moved into the flat she lived with her Mum, I wouldn’t be surprised if her mum did the bulk of the childcare. She lived in that flat for only 3 months and left the baby alone 11 times, in the space of 3 months. I don’t know why people are clinging to excuses like she was sex trafficked during those days, when there is no evidence of that or that she was abused by her family. All the actual evidence speaks of someone who was too selfish to care about the well-being of her baby, who probably ignored the kid even when she was there so the child learnt not to cry. I wouldn’t call her evil because it robs her if responsibility. She will be out before she is 30 and will no doubt have another baby to neglect as soon as possible.
She was taken into care at 14 because of child sexual exploitation.

After she gave birth at 16 (due to sexual exploitation) she went to a duster family, then back to her Mum. Then she was moved into the ‘supported accommodation’. Aged 17 with a baby on the child protection register.

I hear the posters who have survived abusive unloved childhoods. Let down by those who should have lived and protected them. And gif knows, why would you want to hear ‘excuses’ that let your own parents off the hook?

But statistically people who have grown up in care / been subject to sexual abuse and other disordered and traumatic neglect do have a higher likelihood of not breaking that cycle. It doesn’t mean that everyone who grew up like that does bad things, far from it. But it’s hard to say that such a childhood doesn’t cause damage, and for some that damage contributes to the fact that they don’t break the cycle.

Kudi was responsible for her baby’s death.

But also she should have had more supervision, and the baby should have been a priority in the authority’s radar. Given that she was in the Child Protection Register from birth.

bluewanda · 07/08/2021 21:04

'Verphy Kudi misled staff into believing Asiah was with her whilst she was away celebrating her 18th birthday. Tragically, neither our staff, nor other residents, heard anything to alert them to the fact that Asiah had been left in the flat alone and this continues to impact them deeply.

Statement from the housing place where little Asiah was left to die.

XDownwiththissortofthingX · 07/08/2021 21:08

The is no explanation for somebody doing this to a child

Sorry, but this is just a daft statement

Even if her neglect is down to having no bond with the child, callous indifference, and total disregard for the consequences, that still 'explains' why she has acted the way she has.

And can the people going on about 'apologists' just give it a rest? Nobody is making 'excuses' for this woman. It's perfectly possible to hold her 100% responsible for her child's death, and still be curious about how exactly she might have acted this way. There is a causality for everything, and again, normal, typical mothers do not up on a whim and leave their children to starve. It's totally understandable to question what it is that makes this one different, wonder about why that might be.

Comedycook · 07/08/2021 21:11

Nobody is making 'excuses' for this woman. It's perfectly possible to hold her 100% responsible for her child's death, and still be curious about how exactly she might have acted this way

Yes I agree. Her behaviour was appalling obviously but I'm also interested in how any mother could be in a nightclub and enjoying themselves knowing their baby is at home alone and has been for hours/days. Just the thought of it makes me feel blind panic. What was going through her head?

abcdeg · 07/08/2021 21:13

@XDownwiththissortofthingX

The is no explanation for somebody doing this to a child

Sorry, but this is just a daft statement

Even if her neglect is down to having no bond with the child, callous indifference, and total disregard for the consequences, that still 'explains' why she has acted the way she has.

And can the people going on about 'apologists' just give it a rest? Nobody is making 'excuses' for this woman. It's perfectly possible to hold her 100% responsible for her child's death, and still be curious about how exactly she might have acted this way. There is a causality for everything, and again, normal, typical mothers do not up on a whim and leave their children to starve. It's totally understandable to question what it is that makes this one different, wonder about why that might be.

Actually, the people making up scenarios with zero evidence are making excuses. Saying she needed better support or was harmed by her own abuse isn't excuses, but there definitely are people making excuses.

Saying she had no agency over her actions when there is evidence (witnesses, CCTV, social media activity) saying she DID is making excuses.

bluewanda · 07/08/2021 21:18

Actually, the people making up scenarios with zero evidence are making excuses.

Exactly - the level of pure speculation from some posters on this thread is ridiculous.

Saying she had no agency over her actions when there is evidence (witnesses, CCTV, social media activity) saying she DID is making excuses.

I would add the detective in charge of the case and the judge at the trial to that list as well! But no - Mumsnetters know better than all of them Hmm

PolkadotClouds · 07/08/2021 21:19

But it’s hard to say that such a childhood doesn’t cause damage, and for some that damage contributes to the fact that they don’t break the cycle.

Those of us who have lived it are well aware of the damage that it does, no need to explain that to us.

Also, my concern here isn't about my feelings being hurt because something might "let my parents off the hook". My concern is that 30 years later, these cases are still not being prevented even when there was plenty of evidence that the child was being put at risk.

EspressoDoubleShot · 07/08/2021 21:22

The is no explanation for somebody doing this to a child
What an asinine comment, There’s always an explanation.events don’t happen in a vacuum. In this case There is a sad and disturbing backstory. No one is excusing or minimising this tragic death, and the mum is wholly responsible for her actions.

PolkadotClouds · 07/08/2021 21:23

@EspressoDoubleShot

The is no explanation for somebody doing this to a child What an asinine comment, There’s always an explanation.events don’t happen in a vacuum. In this case There is a sad and disturbing backstory. No one is excusing or minimising this tragic death, and the mum is wholly responsible for her actions.
You do realise that your comment contradicts itself?
VanGoSunflowers · 07/08/2021 21:24

I started to read that article earlier and had to stop myself from reading it as I found it that distressing.

I have no words.

XDownwiththissortofthingX · 07/08/2021 21:28

Actually, the people making up scenarios with zero evidence are making excuses. Saying she needed better support or was harmed by her own abuse isn't excuses, but there definitely are people making excuses

Again, no. That's speculation.

'I wonder what caused this woman, who is entirely responsible for the death of her child, to act the way she did?'

Speculation. No 'excusing' whatsoever.

VanGoSunflowers · 07/08/2021 21:30

Regardless of her background or upbringing or whatever the cause is for her inexcusable behaviour, this woman should never be allowed to see outside a prison walk again.
I’m not usually a ‘hang them all’ type of person and strongly believe in prisoner rehabilitation in the vast majority of cases.
But a woman who can do this can not be rehabilitated. She is totally and utterly broken.

The thought that she could have another child one day makes my blood run cold.

EspressoDoubleShot · 07/08/2021 21:31

I can’t see anyone excusing her heinous acts
Just because one is not demanding capital punishment doesn’t equate to head tilt and excuses

Panickingpavlova · 07/08/2021 21:36

Reoccurring theme, staff, sw, teachers, believe what the abuser says.

She misled staff that the little girl was with her.

Why believe her? Why not investigate and push further when she's got fork for leaving her child.

Isn't there a protocol for this... She's got form for leaving her baby, the whole set up is an absolute mess.... She's now saying something about the baby... Why not ask for proof?

It seems abusers use words to pull the wool very easily over the eyes of people who know, their actions tell a different story.

Go by the actions not the words.

PolkadotClouds · 07/08/2021 21:40

@EspressoDoubleShot

I can’t see anyone excusing her heinous acts Just because one is not demanding capital punishment doesn’t equate to head tilt and excuses
That isn't what the majority of posters have said, at all.