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Original poster

Nine years for starving a baby to death

999 replies

PropertyFlipper · 06/08/2021 15:07

I’m struggling to see the justice here. This sorry specimen will be out in five years no doubt. Devastating.
Teen mother, 19, bursts into tears as she is jailed for nine years

OP posts:
RubyFowler · 07/08/2021 09:24

If she'd have been on trial for murder she'd probably have been found not guilty and walked out of there free.

Kanaloa · 07/08/2021 09:25

I don’t think I’m the exception, most people don’t starve their kids to death by leaving them for six days. It’s a minority who do that.

RubyFowler · 07/08/2021 09:25

@HarrisMcCoo

As has rightly been pointed out by several other posters, the majority of people who were raised in dysfunctional families don't go on to offend themselves later in life. Stop making excuses for this cretin.
If it has nothing to do with it, why is it such a common occurrence in the background and childhood experiences of those that cause harm to children? Its not making excuses. Its trying to understand.
intothewoodss · 07/08/2021 09:28

Having worked with children with similar backgrounds to the woman in question, I sadly can imagine how she would leave her child and then go away partying.

Severe neglect damages children's brains. That's a fact. Among other things children who are severely neglected and abused are prone to cognitive delays, stunting of physical growth, impairments in executive function and self-regulation skills, and disruptions of the body’s stress response.

Impairments in executive function and self regulation skills are the important ones here. This is caused by the frontal lobe not developing as it should.

The mother of that child that died was severely neglected and abused throughout her whole childhood. She had no experience whatsoever of what a healthy functioning family unit should look like. And her brain was damaged by abuse.

Of course what happened was absolutely horrific. I am not disputing that. I am just saying that calling a woman with an underdeveloped brain 'evil' shows little to no understanding of the circumstances of her background.

Blossomtoes · 07/08/2021 09:33

The mother of that child that died was severely neglected and abused throughout her whole childhood. She had no experience whatsoever of what a healthy functioning family unit should look like. And her brain was damaged by abuse

In which case why was she allowed to keep her child? Or at least not be closely supervised? It’s just excuse after excuse.

intothewoodss · 07/08/2021 09:36

@Blossomtoes

The mother of that child that died was severely neglected and abused throughout her whole childhood. She had no experience whatsoever of what a healthy functioning family unit should look like. And her brain was damaged by abuse

In which case why was she allowed to keep her child? Or at least not be closely supervised? It’s just excuse after excuse.

That's the question everyone should be asking.
Lockdownbear · 07/08/2021 09:38

Or at least not be closely supervised?

That is the biggest question. She was badly let down, and in turn let her DD down. They didn't have a social worker at the time.

gingganggooleywotsit · 07/08/2021 09:41

@intothewoodss. I accept what you are saying. However, ANYONE knows a baby needs food. Even a 5 year old knows that. She could have left a pile of Ella’s pouches open, anything atall..a pile of sandwiches?? She would have still been behaving appallingly leaving her that long. The point is it was wrong to starve her to death and she knew it.

BigSandyBalls2015 · 07/08/2021 09:48

Tragic case. In those photos the baby looks clean and well fed/cared for.

x2boys · 07/08/2021 09:56

@BigSandyBalls2015

Tragic case. In those photos the baby looks clean and well fed/cared for.
That means nothing in the Baby p photo he looked clean and well cared for.
enoughforme · 07/08/2021 10:04

[quote gingganggooleywotsit]@intothewoodss. I accept what you are saying. However, ANYONE knows a baby needs food. Even a 5 year old knows that. She could have left a pile of Ella’s pouches open, anything atall..a pile of sandwiches?? She would have still been behaving appallingly leaving her that long. The point is it was wrong to starve her to death and she knew it.[/quote]
I agree, but I actually honest believe she thought six days would not necessarily kill the baby (this doesn't make it any better - but I think had someone have told her the outcome before she did it, she may not have gone for quite so long)

This is NOT me defending her I think she should be imprisoned however I honestly think she thought the baby would live.

ExpressDelivery · 07/08/2021 10:11

No one knows.

The teens I work with often go missing "partying" for days with "boyfriends". What's actually happening is they're being groomed and exploited even if they don't realise it.

the80sweregreat · 07/08/2021 10:11

It's the fact that she had form for leaving a vulnerable child before this that makes people question why it was allowed to carry on. Why wasn't the child removed the first time she did this? It's a simple question that will be picked apart by an expensive ' enquiry ' no doubt where everyone involved will cover each other arse and many excuses will be found for why it happened. Heard and read it too many times before , sadly. Nobody will lose their job either I bet.
She'll be out in less than nine years too.
It's just so sad

Dongdingdong · 07/08/2021 10:12

Neither is telling me I'm making excuses when I'm not.

@Lockheart Nonsense. You're falling over yourself to come up with hypothetical scenarios to attempt to diminish the role she played in this poor child's death. Like saying she might have accidentally been off her face on drink/drugs, when her itinerary clearly shows she got up and down the country during her six day jaunt.

Maybe she didn't even assume someone would step in, perhaps she only intended to be away for a day (for example) but got so off her face on whatever that she was out of her mind for the next few days.

A few days - what? She was away for SIX days. Stop trying to downplay what happened here.

Lockheart · 07/08/2021 10:15

@Dongdingdong

Neither is telling me I'm making excuses when I'm not.

@Lockheart Nonsense. You're falling over yourself to come up with hypothetical scenarios to attempt to diminish the role she played in this poor child's death. Like saying she might have accidentally been off her face on drink/drugs, when her itinerary clearly shows she got up and down the country during her six day jaunt.

Maybe she didn't even assume someone would step in, perhaps she only intended to be away for a day (for example) but got so off her face on whatever that she was out of her mind for the next few days.

A few days - what? She was away for SIX days. Stop trying to downplay what happened here.

Again, these aren't excuses - they are hypothetical scenarios to try and explain why the sentence passed would be for manslaughter and not murder.
SinisterBumFacedCat · 07/08/2021 10:20

It took her 2 hours between getting home and ringing the police, in which time she emptied the bins, before calling the emergency services “distraught”.

Blossomtoes · 07/08/2021 10:21

they are hypothetical scenarios to try and explain why the sentence passed would be for manslaughter and not murder

We know why. We don’t need hypothetical scenarios. Most of us are well educated intelligent human beings who understand the difference between murder and manslaughter without patronising “explanations”. We all know that the difference is intent.

Lockdownbear · 07/08/2021 10:21

@ExpressDelivery

No one knows.

The teens I work with often go missing "partying" for days with "boyfriends". What's actually happening is they're being groomed and exploited even if they don't realise it.

That's horrendous. But it certainly wouldn't surprise me if similar happened here.
SinisterBumFacedCat · 07/08/2021 10:23

It was Manslaughter and not murder so the prosecution could guarantee a custodial sentence. Same with that mother and boyfriend who murdered her 3 year old.

Lockheart · 07/08/2021 10:26

@Blossomtoes

they are hypothetical scenarios to try and explain why the sentence passed would be for manslaughter and not murder

We know why. We don’t need hypothetical scenarios. Most of us are well educated intelligent human beings who understand the difference between murder and manslaughter without patronising “explanations”. We all know that the difference is intent.

But apparently not educated enough to understand the difference between excuses and explanations.
MobyDicksTinyCanoe · 07/08/2021 10:40

50ShadesOfCatholic it's been reported the child had been previously removed. The mother fought to get her back....... Which is obvious by the fact she's now lying dead.

Why do you think she wanted her back of she had no inclination to care for her? It doesn't take a genius to work it out. Hmm

HarrisMcCoo · 07/08/2021 10:44

@Kanaloa

I don’t think I’m the exception, most people don’t starve their kids to death by leaving them for six days. It’s a minority who do that.
I agree with you.
ExpressDelivery · 07/08/2021 10:54

Whatever you think of her (personally I think you need to walk in someone's shoes before you have a clue) the fact is that the prospect of a life sentence wouldn't have stopped it and won't stop the next one.

ExpressDelivery · 07/08/2021 11:02

As for removing children at birth, do we really want a world where women from troubled backgrounds have their children removed without ever having a chance to learn to be a parent?

Also, the idea that adoption is a fairytale ending is a myth. There are plenty of examples where adoption has gone horribly wrong too.

It's an impossible situation that "the authorities" have to navigate in the face of political and public opinion and without enough money.

Porcupineintherough · 07/08/2021 11:06

I honestly think she thought the baby would live

@enoughforme that's no better. Sad To knowingly allow your child to suffer so terribly but not care because you think she'll survive.