Page 21 | Nine years for starving a baby to death

PolkadotClouds · 07/08/2021 03:00

Right ok. So you take offense to somebody explaining why they disagree with you because you think that is "patronising". I'm sure if I'd just posted "you are wrong" and not explained why I believe that, you'd take exception to that too. You are the one who started making personal comments and insulting me.

Honestly, how will we ever make any progress with this if people can't have a rational discussion or try to explain their observations on the systemic issues without one survivor of abuse attacking another for sharing their views? What do you think this adversarial and aggressive way of speaking to people will achieve, when they are trying to discuss factual, systemic, legal issues? I really don't understand your behaviour, at all. I think it's very sad, especially when it is such an upsetting topic being discussed. There's no need for it.

JustLyra · 07/08/2021 03:12

I don’t take offence at people disagreeing with me. I take offence at people being patronising and rude because there’s no need for it in a discussion.

Throwing around ridiculous statements stating I “attacked” you is utter nonsense and there’s no point in engaging any further with you.

PolkadotClouds · 07/08/2021 03:16

You accused me of being patronising. That is rude. I'd said nothing personal or rude to you.

Yes, I think that's for the best. This discussion is derailing a thread on a very important topic so best to leave whatever specific issues you have with my posts here and let the conversation move on.

50ShadesOfCatholic · 07/08/2021 03:59

@MobyDicksTinyCanoe

She must have had something about her to get custody of her child back and get ss off her back. She obviously wasnt stupid and had the ability to manipulate professionals.

The naive, young mum, overwhelmed and resentful so she ran bollocks being spouted on here doesn't wash with me. She knew what she was doing when she told social swrvices what they wanted to hear. She'd have also known that having her child in her care meant a secure roof over her head and extra money in her arse pocket. She wanted all of that, she just didnt want to take care of the responsibility that came with it, which will be why she didnt just give her up when she had the chance.

And you know this how? I'm always amazed by how much inside knowledge strangers on the internet have, way more than those involved in the case.

50ShadesOfCatholic · 07/08/2021 04:07

@PropertyFlipper

I’m struggling to see the justice here. This sorry specimen will be out in five years no doubt. Devastating. Teen mother, 19, bursts into tears as she is jailed for nine years

What is justice? What would you like to see happen? Genuine questions. Because the evidence tells us that long jail sentences do not deter offenders and nor do they rehabilitate criminals.

We also know that good support especially for young and lone parents works brilliantly in terms of better outcomes, not just for the files but for society as a whole.

bluewanda · 07/08/2021 04:49

I don’t think @PolkadotClouds was patronising at all.

I hadn't seen this or read about it before you posted it and it's upset me so much. That tiny little boy, so fragile, suffering 41 fractures in his 3 week life. Being in all that pain and not understanding why. Violent, drunk adults screaming and fighting and not caring about his pain. Seen by a consultant and police but left there to die.

Horrendous isn’t it Yet I’m sure someone will be along soon to defend the adults and say they didn’t get enough support.

bluewanda · 07/08/2021 04:51

Because the evidence tells us that long jail sentences do not deter offenders

They do if they’re never released from prison. It’s quite hard to reoffend whilst you’re behind bars (though some do manage it!)

50ShadesOfCatholic · 07/08/2021 05:26

@bluewanda

Because the evidence tells us that long jail sentences do not deter offenders

They do if they’re never released from prison. It’s quite hard to reoffend whilst you’re behind bars (though some do manage it!)

Nope, they offend from behind bars. I'm sorry that you are so ignorant about this but you are in good company!

bluewanda · 07/08/2021 05:34

Nope, they offend from behind bars.

@50ShadesOfCatholic er, yes, a small minority do, as I clearly said in my last post . However, there’s no doubt that the vast majority of criminals are significantly less danger to society when they’re in prison than when they’re free to roam the streets. I’d have thought that was obvious.

Eatingsoupwithafork · 07/08/2021 06:39

As someone who had one of those awful childhoods, which i’ve seen on here is being used as excuse for her behaviour, I can categorically say it is not an excuse for neglecting and killing an innocent infant. If she wanted to party she should have left the child with a support worker or family member.

This story really resonated with me. My mother used to leave me and my two siblings by ourselves when we were children for one, two or three days at a time while she drank and did whatever… but I was 8 and capable of looking after the baby and toddler sibling relatively well. It was awful not knowing if and when she was coming home which my toddler sibling found particularly hard and couldn’t understand. I can’t imagine what this little toddler felt like with no one to reassure her or just be there for her.

It was a relief when me and my siblings got put into foster care. I wish this little girl had of gotten the same help. IMO the “mother” should have gotten much longer in jail, 9 years (which is really 4/5 years) is not enough for what this poor little girl went through.

BlackSwan · 07/08/2021 06:43

In JustLyra’s view no one can question the judge’s decision because they’re not the judge. That’s utterly blinkered. The outcome here does not fit the crime and we will see this mother out on the street ready to fall pregnant again in a handful of years. There should be no second chances after a crime this heinous. She’s beyond redemption- she has no value to society.

MichelleScarn · 07/08/2021 07:16

@bluewanda

Nope, they offend from behind bars.

@50ShadesOfCatholic er, yes, a small minority do, as I clearly said in my last post . However, there’s no doubt that the vast majority of criminals are significantly less danger to society when they’re in prison than when they’re free to roam the streets. I’d have thought that was obvious.

How would she manage to neglecr and starve and kill a child in her care when she's in jail?

MichelleScarn · 07/08/2021 07:18

In agreement with @bluewanda here

Wellwellwellindeed · 07/08/2021 08:01

She must have wanted her to die subconsciously or not. It's so tragic

Abused, in care at 14, cse, pregnant in early teens most likely by her abuser, a family she couldn't/wouldn't be with, no consistent education.

It's not unlikely.

Blossomtoes · 07/08/2021 08:04

We just want to throw them in jail at huge cost to the taxpayer rather than support them properly

When they’re responsible for a child’s death, of course that’s what we do. I thought I was a bleeding heart liberal ...

ExpressDelivery · 07/08/2021 08:08

@Blossomtoes

We just want to throw them in jail at huge cost to the taxpayer rather than support them properly

When they’re responsible for a child’s death, of course that’s what we do. I thought I was a bleeding heart liberal ...

My point was if we spend (much less) money much earlier these things don't happen, the child doesn't die and we don't have to pay keep the mother in jail.

But increased prison sentences are a vote winner, increased social services spending is not.

Blossomtoes · 07/08/2021 08:17

But “these things” keep happening. And it’s entirely right that the person responsible for a child’s death be imprisoned. Prevention is an entirely separate issue from justice. There are instances - Baby P being one - where children should just be removed. This is another in my view. For whatever reason this woman wasn’t fit to parent.

ExpressDelivery · 07/08/2021 08:19

@Blossomtoes

But “these things” keep happening. And it’s entirely right that the person responsible for a child’s death be imprisoned. Prevention is an entirely separate issue from justice. There are instances - Baby P being one - where children should just be removed. This is another in my view. For whatever reason this woman wasn’t fit to parent.

Yes they do because we as, a society and as a state, don't support the people who need it most. This mother would have had a reasonable expectation of a long prison sentence, if as people assert she understood what would happen, but it didn't stop her.

HarrisMcCoo · 07/08/2021 08:20

I would dispute she had limited intelligence...you have to be intelligent enough to leave your baby, lie about someone caring for it and stay away long enough to be sure the baby isn't alive on your return from your birthday celebrations.

That is not the behaviour of someone with limited intelligence, in my view. She knew exactly what she was doing. She was wanting to party hard. A baby is an inconvenience to a person of this calibre.

ExpressDelivery · 07/08/2021 08:22

Whether you think 9 years is long enough or not, it's not insubstantial if you're the person facing it. Doubling it wouldn't have made this tragedy or the next one any less likely.

EmeraldShamrock · 07/08/2021 08:23

The poor baby, hugely failed by her DM and the system.

Blossomtoes · 07/08/2021 08:23

How could she not understand that leaving her daughter with no care, food or water for six days was likely to kill her? You’re defending the indefensible. I bet you feel sorry for Shamima Begum too.

ExpressDelivery · 07/08/2021 08:26

Whatever was going through her head, I'll guarantee it wasn't "well never mind, I'll only get 9 years".

HarrysChild · 07/08/2021 08:27

I wonder what support is meant to be offered in “supported accommodation”, does anyone know? If there were zero checks or contact made over a period of 6 days, it doesn’t sound like much. No idea if it should be more or if that’s standard.

Lockheart · 07/08/2021 08:29

@Blossomtoes

How could she not understand that leaving her daughter with no care, food or water for six days was likely to kill her? You’re defending the indefensible. I bet you feel sorry for Shamima Begum too.

You're making an assumption that that was her thought process.

She could have assumed someone from the supported living establishment would look after her, for example.

Testing whether that belief was reasonable in court would have involved looking at what happened the previous times she'd left Asiah alone.