AIBU to be surprised that Laurel Hubbard didn't register a lift in the Olympics?

[Gladiolixoxo]

I wonder if all the controversy around Laurel's participation led to her losing her nerve?

What’s the problem with the field being opened up

It wouldn't opened up, it would be all but entirely closed to female born people. The biggest lying sophistry in this shitshow is that it's about being "inclusive". It's about knocking women right out. The differences between men and women, even at elite level, are too comprehensive to ignore. Even at the same height and weight, when all else is equal (ie, both are elite in the same sport), the man has more muscle, less fat, more testosterone, more haemoglobin, bigger lungs, bigger heart. Men are not women. They are very different. And nobody ever had trouble understanding this until male bodied people started claiming that their feminine identity trumped actual feminine biology which can never be identified out of.

And anyway, the whole point of the Olympics, and any sport, is to find and acknowledge the best in the world. It's not inclusive, it's as elite as it gets. But that's no reason to effectively prevent women from becoming champions when they can compete fairly against other women.

[quote Pumperthepumper]@Helleofabore height plus speed categories? Weight plus stride length?[/quote]
And hips?

How do you account for the difference in how female pelvis’s are wider with less stability, and less efficient gait?

Any ideas?

Is lung capacity considered a category currently?

Menstruation could be dealt with exactly the same way as it is now: www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.independent.co.uk/life-style/women/tokyo-olympics-female-athletes-period-b1892748.html%3famp

Whats the issue? said Pumperthepumper. Have you read the thread and not understood?

@Theeyeballsinthesky

Ha hahahahahahaha “women not restricted by sex categories” oh dear god

Yes that’s the reason the times of the fastest elite women’s atheletes are beaten every year by thousands of teenage boys, is that darn sex category restriction amirite?? And the reason women aren’t playing rugby against men on a regular basis is yes, those damn sex categories again

And yes indeed why stop with the Olympics?? Why not open up the Paralympics too right? Stop restricting people with disabilities!! Let’s let them compete against the able bodied, so what if they would only win 0.01% of the time!! At least they would t be restricted

I can only assume some people on MN have never seen actual humans 🤦🏻‍♀️🤦🏻‍♀️

I’m not sure you’ve read my posts properly. I’m not suggesting a free for all.

@DrSbaitso

What’s the problem with the field being opened up

It wouldn't opened up, it would be all but entirely closed to female born people. The biggest lying sophistry in this shitshow is that it's about being "inclusive". It's about knocking women right out. The differences between men and women, even at elite level, are too comprehensive to ignore. Even at the same height and weight, when all else is equal (ie, both are elite in the same sport), the man has more muscle, less fat, more testosterone, more haemoglobin, bigger lungs, bigger heart. Men are not women. They are very different. And nobody ever had trouble understanding this until male bodied people started claiming that their feminine identity trumped actual feminine biology which can never be identified out of.

And anyway, the whole point of the Olympics, and any sport, is to find and acknowledge the best in the world. It's not inclusive, it's as elite as it gets. But that's no reason to effectively prevent women from becoming champions when they can compete fairly against other women.

It wouldn’t though. Women would be competing with someone in their own height/weight/proportion group. And the trouble with finding the best in the world is that it’s finite. There is only so far a person can be pushed, what do we do when the world records are impossible to beat?

@Bitofachinwag

Whats the issue? said Pumperthepumper. Have you read the thread and not understood?

I don’t understand why there’s such a pushback to introducing wider categories for the olympics, no. Do you?

Serena Wiiliams has said that 100 of the top male tennis players would beat her in a tennis match. So do we abandon women’s sport to embrace and enable males so win at all sports? Of course the fittest / strongest men are stronger and fitter than the fittest / strongest women. To deny that is to ignore biology completely and to focus on feelings.

@Feelingoktoday

Serena Wiiliams has said that 100 of the top male tennis players would beat her in a tennis match. So do we abandon women’s sport to embrace and enable males so win at all sports? Of course the fittest / strongest men are stronger and fitter than the fittest / strongest women. To deny that is to ignore biology completely and to focus on feelings.

How many of those 100 men would be in her height/weight/proportion category?

I don’t understand why there’s such a pushback to introducing wider categories for the olympics, no. Do you?

Because if people don't cheat (doping, being a different biological sex, claiming a disability they don't have) there's no need for wider, less meaningful categories.

HTH

[quote Pumperthepumper]Is lung capacity considered a category currently?

Menstruation could be dealt with exactly the same way as it is now: www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.independent.co.uk/life-style/women/tokyo-olympics-female-athletes-period-b1892748.html%3famp[/quote]
No, but male and female supposedly are, and they should be protected. Because a male athlete's advantage over a female one is comprehensive and goes way beyond one single attribute. Without that distinction, women will all but disappear entirely. Nor small lunged people or short legged people, but women.

But you know this. Everyone knows this. What nobody knows is why, in competitions of speed and strength, the feminine feelings of a male born person trump the actual feminine physique of a female born one. Well, we know that one too, but accusations of phobia and bigotry go down much easier, don't they?

@titchy

I don’t understand why there’s such a pushback to introducing wider categories for the olympics, no. Do you?

Because if people don't cheat (doping, being a different biological sex, claiming a disability they don't have) there's no need for wider, less meaningful categories.

HTH

There is though - the Olympian records are finite. Eventually we will reach unbeatable world records.

HTH

More than that, it means a wider scope for women to compete because they’re no longer restricted by sex categories. Whats the issue?

The issue is that females are not simply males with low testosterone. They never have been.

To suggest that they are is ignoring reality.

Don’t worry women and girls, you are just not trying hard enough!!! You can compete against the mediocre males that fit in the regulations of your category (highly unlikely to be the best males in the world) and still continue to lose. But don’t give up. Sponsorship and accolades may be yours, eventually, but you are simply shit really and don’t deserve it now.

There is though - the Olympian records are finite. Eventually we will reach unbeatable world records.

And if you're happy with none of those records ever being held by women, I guess there isn't a problem.

There is though - the Olympian records are finite. Eventually we will reach unbeatable world records.

They said that about the 4 minute mile, the 10 second 100m, the 2 hour marathon. All broken.

There's no such thing as an unbeatable record, particularly with technological improvements timing. Records are not finite.

HTH

@DrSbaitso they don’t though - I don’t think trans women should be competing against women as it stands just now. But nor do I think that the current system is fair - Caster Semenya being an example of an athlete let down by the system. And also, as I said, there will come a point where the current set up becomes watching people unable to break super-human records. Or why we have separate Olympics for Paralympic athletes.

I don’t understand why there’s such a pushback to introducing wider categories for the olympics, no. Do you?
Yes I do.

@Helleofabore

More than that, it means a wider scope for women to compete because they’re no longer restricted by sex categories. Whats the issue?

The issue is that females are not simply males with low testosterone. They never have been.

To suggest that they are is ignoring reality.

Don’t worry women and girls, you are just not trying hard enough!!! You can compete against the mediocre males that fit in the regulations of your category (highly unlikely to be the best males in the world) and still continue to lose. But don’t give up. Sponsorship and accolades may be yours, eventually, but you are simply shit really and don’t deserve it now.

Why would they be competing against mediocre males in a proportion category instead of people who deserve to be there?

@titchy

There is though - the Olympian records are finite. Eventually we will reach unbeatable world records.

They said that about the 4 minute mile, the 10 second 100m, the 2 hour marathon. All broken.

There's no such thing as an unbeatable record, particularly with technological improvements timing. Records are not finite.

HTH

There absolutely is. You can’t run a marathon in five minutes. Records are absolutely finite.

HTH.

@titchy

There is though - the Olympian records are finite. Eventually we will reach unbeatable world records.

They said that about the 4 minute mile, the 10 second 100m, the 2 hour marathon. All broken.

There's no such thing as an unbeatable record, particularly with technological improvements timing. Records are not finite.

HTH

Sorry, forgot

Pumperthepumper "How many of those 100 men would be in her height/weight/proportion category?"

Don't you think Selena might have the (God forbid this awful phrase) the 'lived experience' to make this statement? She will have trained with male tennis players, of all shapes and sizes, many times?

@Bitofachinwag

I don’t understand why there’s such a pushback to introducing wider categories for the olympics, no. Do you? Yes I do.

Ok. Thanks.

@KathyMunhoe

Pumperthepumper "How many of those 100 men would be in her height/weight/proportion category?"

Don't you think Selena might have the (God forbid this awful phrase) the 'lived experience' to make this statement? She will have trained with male tennis players, of all shapes and sizes, many times?

Did she say if they were in her proportion category? Or did she mean specifically Djokovic?

pumper, I know a man who is the same height as me, the same weight as me and pretty much the same proportion as me. He exercises about the same amount as I do, and is the same age. He can beat me in any race, and is stronger than me. Why? Because his male physique is naturally stronger than mine. And while we're talking about Serena Williams, she and Novak Djokovic are almost the same height and weight. They would probably be in the same category according to your rules. He'd win though. She wouldn't stand a chance.

Can you explain what you mean by proportion?