AIBU to be surprised that Laurel Hubbard didn't register a lift in the Olympics?

[Gladiolixoxo]

I wonder if all the controversy around Laurel's participation led to her losing her nerve?

The wonderful Ross Tucker explaining why the “but what about taller people? People with long arms? Some people are just naturally advantaged so it’s fair to get rid of single sex sports” is spurious

twitter.com/scienceofsport/status/1123960874979549186?s=21

@Pumperthepumper

Isn’t the solution to this to get rid of male/female sports and organise it by height or weight? Or mass? Or speed?

Because arranging categories in that fashion will certainly mean women will miss out.

The studies are clear (and corroborated by a transwoman researcher drawing the same conclusions that others have).

Males who have gone through puberty retain many advantages.

Or are you going to separate categories by femur length, twitch muscle response time, lung capacity and hand size and grip, and menstrual cycle effects as well as height, weight etc.

Because it is a very simplistic view that doesn’t look to the many other advantages that are in no way mitigated by reducing testosterone.

And no, the biological advantages between competitors within a decade category are NOTHING like the advantages between competitors of different sex categories.

So tell us. How would you separate 100 m sprinters equitably? Knowing that thousands of males beat the female record every year?

Please post your solution and let’s see how that works.

'I don’t think ‘admin’ is going to be enough of a reason to say no outright. I think that’s the direction of travel - and not to appease trans people, but to open the field'

You say 'admin' in such a dismissive way.

I bet loads of women on the thread (not all obv!) are used to hearing 'just admin'

Given the woman who lost her place was added as a reserve last minute after ioc said take a reserve. Why didn't LH withdraw and let the reserve for the country compete?

Because LH is special and their feelings outrank those of a female who could actually have done a lift.

beastlyslumber

Agreed beastly. But these are the guidelines those who post regularly on the feminism board use everyday.

It couldn't be just the Olympics which you seem to be implying?

It would need to be embedded in the sports from ground up.

It's important to train with, practice with, compete against those in your category all through. Not chop and change who you are up against.

So yes. It's a lot of 'admin'. Also challenges to the category definitions, careful checking of all competing all the time etc.

Currently there's what.
Sex obviously.
Then martial arts boxing weightlifting etc weight. (Easy here's the scales).
Age. Let's see a doc? Cool.
Anything else?

Oh and yes of course it would open up the field

Obviously.

That's why I have s feeling, esp given the IOC press the other day, that's the way it's going to go.

'weight? Or mass? '

Are you looking ahead to when we colonise other planets and compete on them as well?

'Or speed'

I think you'll find that many disciplines already focus on speed as a differentiator.

The 100m sprint comes to mind.

@peachescariad

Maybe LH will identify as a 16 year old girl next and try out for the county youth teams...I'm sure Jacinda will be just as accepting of this as she was of him joining the women's team.

Not too far away from Gabrielle Ludwig..

@EishetChayil

A tactical move, leaving the way clear for transwomen to colonise women's sports.

This

@NiceGerbil

Oh and yes of course it would open up the field

Obviously.

That's why I have s feeling, esp given the IOC press the other day, that's the way it's going to go.

It would open up the field. I wonder if we'll ever get a man enter women's artistic gymnastics?

TG he gymnastics is an interesting area.

The sexes have a load of disciplines that are different.

Men don't do the beam.
Women don't do the rings.

I wonder what the reason could be? Most peculiar.

@Helleofabore height plus speed categories? Weight plus stride length?

@NiceGerbil the trivial little matter of upper body strength compared to weight I think is why women don't do rings. Because men are just like women save for the testosterone and genitals

Bit - there was a brilliant video which I’ll try & dig out which showed female gymnasts watch male gymnasts try out their apparatus - they mastered stuff in a few hours it took the women months

A male gymnast would almost certainly win the vault as mens vaults are faster higher & more complex becatse they go much faster & higher. Ditto the floor - provided they could manage the dance elements, the tumbling would be way more difficult than women’s.

In both disciplines their starting difficulty would be much higher than women’s so a much better chance of a higher score

@NiceGerbil

TG he gymnastics is an interesting area.

The sexes have a load of disciplines that are different.

Men don't do the beam.
Women don't do the rings.

I wonder what the reason could be? Most peculiar.

They both do the floor routine, but the women's version is definitely more " feminine " ( not sure if that's the right word ) than the men's.

@DaphneDeloresMoorhead

In a minute I'm going to relax watching the highlights of the only sport where a woman roundly beat all the men to take the gold.

♥️ 🐎

So the same as in the weightlifting then.

@NiceGerbil

It couldn't be just the Olympics which you seem to be implying?

It would need to be embedded in the sports from ground up.

It's important to train with, practice with, compete against those in your category all through. Not chop and change who you are up against.

So yes. It's a lot of 'admin'. Also challenges to the category definitions, careful checking of all competing all the time etc.

Currently there's what.
Sex obviously.
Then martial arts boxing weightlifting etc weight. (Easy here's the scales).
Age. Let's see a doc? Cool.
Anything else?

It would have to start from the ground up, I’m not sure why that’s a big deal though?

What’s the problem with the field being opened up? It stops the Olympic being a televised Guinness world record attempt, and it makes sports categories wider. It could mean Paralympic events being merged. More than that, it means a wider scope for women to compete because they’re no longer restricted by sex categories. Whats the issue?

[quote DaphneDeloresMoorhead]@NiceGerbil the trivial little matter of upper body strength compared to weight I think is why women don't do rings. Because men are just like women save for the testosterone and genitals[/quote]
Don't even need the genitals. Give a hulking huge man androgen blockers for a few months, and presto! A woman! That's all women are, men with a few hormone inhibitors.

[quote DaphneDeloresMoorhead]@NiceGerbil the trivial little matter of upper body strength compared to weight I think is why women don't do rings. Because men are just like women save for the testosterone and genitals[/quote]
Surely that would be solved by height and weight categories for rings with adjusted equipment though?

Did anyone else noticed that at the end Laurel bowed to the crowd rather than curtsey? Laurel really puts in minimal effort to her "womaning".

[quote Pumperthepumper]@Helleofabore height plus speed categories? Weight plus stride length?[/quote]
And lung capacity? And twitch muscles for starts?

How would you mitigate those?

And the effect of menstruation on training and competition? How would you allow for that when men have nothing of the sort to deal with?

@Theeyeballsinthesky

Bit - there was a brilliant video which I’ll try & dig out which showed female gymnasts watch male gymnasts try out their apparatus - they mastered stuff in a few hours it took the women months

A male gymnast would almost certainly win the vault as mens vaults are faster higher & more complex becatse they go much faster & higher. Ditto the floor - provided they could manage the dance elements, the tumbling would be way more difficult than women’s.

In both disciplines their starting difficulty would be much higher than women’s so a much better chance of a higher score

Yes, you're right. I wonder about the more artistic "wiggly" parts of the women's routines. Men do none of that! I am not sure if it's the case anymore, but I think women used to be scored on their expression of femininity!

Ha hahahahahahaha “women not restricted by sex categories” oh dear god

Yes that’s the reason the times of the fastest elite women’s atheletes are beaten every year by thousands of teenage boys, is that darn sex category restriction amirite?? And the reason women aren’t playing rugby against men on a regular basis is yes, those damn sex categories again

And yes indeed why stop with the Olympics?? Why not open up the Paralympics too right? Stop restricting people with disabilities!! Let’s let them compete against the able bodied, so what if they would only win 0.01% of the time!! At least they would t be restricted

I can only assume some people on MN have never seen actual humans 🤦🏻‍♀️🤦🏻‍♀️