AIBU to be surprised that Laurel Hubbard didn't register a lift in the Olympics?

[Gladiolixoxo]

I wonder if all the controversy around Laurel's participation led to her losing her nerve?

And clearly I didn't do a great job 😂

Sorry I'll correct that

Removing your male genitals does not make you female.

@warmandtoasty2day

still the sex you were born no matter how much surgery you have you can't change biological dna. get over it. Lauren should have not been on the womens team. Flame away i don't care.

I do agree with you. I know it's a complex subject.

Having surgery on your reproductive organs to remove them etc does not change your sex.

Any more than my mums hysterectomy made her a man

@warmandtoasty2day

not sure how anyone could think LH is a woman, looks very much a chunky over weight male from where I'm sitting.

It's the pink trainers I think. Proof of lady brain.🤔

@DaphneDeloresMoorhead

And clearly I didn't do a great job 😂

Sorry Daphne it's been a long day!

Tell me about it. Been up since 4.30 for work 😭

It's not complex at all

Which is why so many arguments who want gender to take precedence over sex refer to clownfish and the other day one brought a type of slime into the mix (!!!). Or are really long with lots of involved language from niche areas in the hope readers will think, they sound clever must have a point. Or talk about hormone washes and brain sex (hello sexism!) when this is about bodies. Or make points like (from slime man) 'what's so female about giving birth anyway!). Etc etc

In a minute I'm going to relax watching the highlights of the only sport where a woman roundly beat all the men to take the gold.

♥️ 🐎

Isn’t the solution to this to get rid of male/female sports and organise it by height or weight? Or mass? Or speed?

Incidentally DH has v low testosterone. The IOC etc therefore think he's essentially the same as a woman.

That's pretty offensive to men isn't it? And a lot of them given the current level of 10 whatevers max. Is WITHIN the male normal range...

Your sex is your reproductive class. Is your body of the class capable of producing sperm or ova? That's it. It doesn't change if you remove bits or add bits, and it doesn't change if you have a condition that interferes with the production of gametes. In fact, such conditions can, by nature, occur only within one particular sex class. It's not a medical issue if a male person isn't producing ova.

I would snort at this but we have had people on here claiming that TWAW because hysterectomies and mastectomies, and I don't know where to start with such offensive, wilful stupidity. A woman who loses body parts to cancer doesn't cease to be a woman. Or a man in equivalent circumstances cease to be a man.

Women are not men with bits removed or drugs injected. Women are a distinct reproductive sex class. When Richard Budgett or any other village idiot logs on to Pornhub, he can tell who the women are, or indeed the men if that's his preference.

I read in the paper that she crashed out of the competition because she did not have "a valid snatch"!

@Pumperthepumper

Isn’t the solution to this to get rid of male/female sports and organise it by height or weight? Or mass? Or speed?

No.

A man in a leotard with a slick of lippy should never have been there !

@NiceGerbil why?

@NiceGerbil I bet he still thinks things like driving and being in control are male things though...

@Hugoslavia

I read in the paper that she crashed out of the competition because she did not have "a valid snatch"!

Haha.

It took balls to get where she is.

Even from a logistical perspective.

Multiple categorisations with comprehensive rules will be subject to-

Loads of overhead in writing them, getting them published understood applied

Reviews and challenges to be undertaken

Would need to be applied right through the levels all the way down

At lower levels what if there's hardly anyone in your group to compete against

Massively involved and complicated and with obvious downsides and poss unintended consequences.

Would make everything from ground up very mired in bureaucracy. Off-putting for everyone.

And still even at same weight height the vast majority of males are way stronger than the vast majority of females.

From the IOC statement I think they are probably heading this way though.

The more complicated and involved the rules are, the harder it is for anyone to challenge them. Eg well this category is for those 5'6-5'9, with a standardised fast twitch rating 2.6- 3.1, grip strength less than 32.678% and testosterone proxy body hair ratio more than 16.

Ermmm.

Numbers and metrics made up obv! But that's where it's heading I think.

All because TWAW and everyone agrees and they must be able to compete according to gender.

I'm trying to point out the ridiculousness of the position that merely removing your male genitals makes you a woman

Oh, I see. Yes, I agree with you. (Also LH still has his twig and berries.)

Meanwhile despite the fact that changing T level (or for some no change needed) makes it fair and even,

I haven't seen many transmen in the male events at all. Funny that.

Maybe LH will identify as a 16 year old girl next and try out for the county youth teams...I'm sure Jacinda will be just as accepting of this as she was of him joining the women's team.

@NiceGerbil

Even from a logistical perspective.

Multiple categorisations with comprehensive rules will be subject to-

Loads of overhead in writing them, getting them published understood applied

Reviews and challenges to be undertaken

Would need to be applied right through the levels all the way down

At lower levels what if there's hardly anyone in your group to compete against

Massively involved and complicated and with obvious downsides and poss unintended consequences.

Would make everything from ground up very mired in bureaucracy. Off-putting for everyone.

And still even at same weight height the vast majority of males are way stronger than the vast majority of females.

From the IOC statement I think they are probably heading this way though.

The more complicated and involved the rules are, the harder it is for anyone to challenge them. Eg well this category is for those 5'6-5'9, with a standardised fast twitch rating 2.6- 3.1, grip strength less than 32.678% and testosterone proxy body hair ratio more than 16.

Ermmm.

Numbers and metrics made up obv! But that's where it's heading I think.

All because TWAW and everyone agrees and they must be able to compete according to gender.

I don’t think ‘admin’ is going to be enough of a reason to say no outright. I think that’s the direction of travel - and not to appease trans people, but to open the field. There is a finite point with Olympic standards, the world record can only be beaten a few times before it becomes an impossibility.

There’s a very similar argument for football, reducing the number of players makes for a more interesting game because you not longer have the super-elite with the ball for only 0.3 of a second.

@Helleofabore

Glad you didn’t get a strike beastlyslumber. We twist our language like pretzels to fit into the guidelines. It is ridiculous.

If we can't state the truth about female bodies on MUMSnet... that's so offensive to me. Do they realise that most women here grew a whole human inside them and pushed it out their vag? Obviously we know what a woman is! And what a woman is not (i.e. male).