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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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To think that 'middle class' parents get away with murder

901 replies

catfunk · 01/08/2021 12:59

I grew up in a beautiful but modest part of the north with a fair amount of poverty and unemployment. Lots of families were under social services' care (?) police called out a lot, etc.

I now live in a fairly expensive city in the south, a fairly left wing liberal place where people party, lots of mums are 'trendy' types and generational wealth is quite common.

It struck me the other day that if the parents in my home town behaved like the parents in my current home there'd be real repercussions.
Noisy house parties whilst kids are in bed upstairs, parents getting drunk and staying out all night, recreational drug taking and being too hungover to do the school run. But it's ok because they're drinking champagne and expensive gin instead of tenants, and expensive cannabis tinctures instead of smoking resin?

None of the kids seem unhappy or affected and they do have lovely family times together of course but AIBU To think this is not fair ?

OP posts:
mbosnz · 01/08/2021 14:30

This is a really interesting, and revealing discussion OP. Thank you for raising the topic!

Okay, another example, from a village I lived in. The Postmaster and his wife. The children were always dressed in the most appalling outdated clothes, that led to bullying and mockery. This was just tacitly accepted by the adults, including the teachers. The younger boy was absolutely terrified of his head being under water. I don't know if there was anything sinister behind this, but it definitely led to more bullying and mockery, including by teachers.

These two poor bloody little kids, 9 and 7, ran away. We were 130km of very hilly, pedestrian hostile terrain, away from the next township.

That finally brought these poor little beggars to official attention (I got questioned as a 9 year old, because I was the closest thing to a friend the eldest had). After that, for the first time ever, these kids were allowed a birthday party. We were only allowed in the front room. Under close watch. Shortly thereafter, they upped and moved. To continue as per usual, I assume. . .

Bryonyshcmyony · 01/08/2021 14:31

They wore funny clothes?? Is that it?

RadandMad · 01/08/2021 14:31

Perhaps middle class parents mollycoddled this new generation of adults more than working class parents ever did, and we are now seeing new lows of parental selfishness in immature adults.

WombatChocolate · 01/08/2021 14:33

I would agree that certain behaviours attract/don't attract attention depending on who is carrying them out.....there is a double standard here. Whether these behaviours are a sign of neglect etc is uncertain - sometimes they are and sometimes not. Neglect/abuse can take a number if firms and not just the stereotypical ones that come to mind.

I'm surprised by so many people saying they are m/c and don't recognise the behaviour mentioned of big boozing/possible drug taking. Amongst the Prep school parents we know, there is a sizeable group who do a lot of socialising, often at each others' houses which involves big dinner parties with a LOT of booze and sometimes drugs on a regular basis. There will be lots of hung over people next day. Likewise, lots of parents will regularly drink a bottle of wine each evening and a couple in the evening, so the children are very familiar with living in a culture of drinking and often low level drunkeness/being hung over.

Two questions arise...why does this go under the radar for these families and also, should it be noticed and a cause for concern?

  • Firstly, I think there can be a double standard in terms of notice taken of such behaviour. Perhaps these white collar workers are drinking in the privacy of their own homes and not drawing loud attention to themselves in public. Because their children are fed and clothed and more obvious signs of neglect not evident, any known drinking is laughed off rather than seen as a cause for concern. This might be different to regular drinking in some circles drawing attention....if it is done loudly and publically. people don't laugh at 'posh people enjoying themselves' but look down their noses at 'poor people drawing attention to themselves and showing themselves up' - people drinking lager in a social housing estate and then coming out to dance in the street aren't necessarily doing any less well with their parenting, but their behaviour is much more public and that's why it gets noticed.

When the drunken behaviour is public it gets noticed. And people see that behaviour, especially from certain groups as being a poss lie indicator of neglect. It doesn't directly correlate, but it will be the case, that some children who experience neglect do live in families which exhibit such behaviour. The public behaviour simply draws the attention of neighbours, school, services and raise the question of whether there is neglect etc. Because the middle classes do it more surreptitiously, the attention isn't attracted. Becaue some of the behaviour isn't as loud, it doesn't seem so concerning.....although it could well be.

And then there's the issue of whether this culture of drinking matters. If your children are well fed and housed and clothed and go to school and attend clubs, does it matter if the parents drink a lot in weekdays or are regularly drunk at weekends? Does it only matter where it hinders the ability of parents to feed and clothe their children or pay for swimming lessons?
I would say that the impacts are often pervasive and more significant than noticed. So the middle class child with parents who regularly drink might not lack dinner money or school uniform, but they might have to make their own breakfast because a parent can't get out of bed at the weekend. Is that serious enough to be neglect? Not perhaps if you're 10 and you've had a good meal at school, but it is neglect if you're 3. What about if the child sees their parents behaving in a drunken manner or causing damage or possibly rowing and fighting due to drink....that's not okay. And where is the boundary between enjoying a drink and being an alcoholic? Lots of children grow up with alcoholic parents who seem to function and go to work and appear 'normal' to the world, but behave terribly to their children and have them growing up in a culture of fear of mood swings related to drink or having to be complicit in hiding it. This can happen to children of any class.

Some parents do seem to be o the radar of any authorities much more. Those who have been flagged on any kind of system, such as receiving benefits, or having medical issues, or receiving housing or any kind of support, might be noticed more quickly for drinking/being hung over. Organisations such as schools are told to be on the look out for 'flags' of concern and one flag means being extra vigilant for others. Quite simply, the middle class are less likely to have so many flags, so when one does exist in seeming isolation, it's perhaps easier to go undetected.

It probably is easier for those with plenty to drink and be borderline alcoholics and still meet the basic practical needs of children, than it is for those with little. Having money does allow some covering over of weaknesses or inabilities to provide care by paying for things. However, this is only to a point and bearing in mind that care or neglect and abuse is about so much more than simple food and accommodation and clean clothes, significant and regular significant drinking probably is a cause for concern but iften goes undetected amongst many. As so many say here, they were middle class and victims in childhood and no-one noticed. We hope everyone is more geared up to notice and some of the gaps closed now, but it may well still be easier for middle class neglect and abuse to go unnoticed. However, the safeguarding leads in all of the affluent state schools and in the fee paying schools will tell you, that there is no shortage of concerns and cases and there are always children to follow up who are connected with social services despite affluence, or who come to attention through the listening and counselling services that schools now run.

MissM2912 · 01/08/2021 14:33

Happycow37 Social services don’t turn a blind eye because the families have money. They have a statutory duty to investigate any complaints made! if they aren’t made aware of issues they can’t investigate them. If ANYONE has a cause for concern they should be phoning it in to social work gateway/ emergency team to be looked at.

SourAppleChew · 01/08/2021 14:34

I know a fair few high earners who take coke and party hard etc. Usually they are better at the people management side than the guy drinking special brew in his caravan. Comes with the high powered/professional job.

mbosnz · 01/08/2021 14:34

Dunno if you've ever lived in a small village in NZ, but wearing clothes from the sixties, made out of curtains (I'm not joking, someone watched the Sound of Music, and clearly thought that was a smashing idea), and bloomers, mad a kid something along the lines of a live rabbit thrown into a greyhound race. I'm fairly certain there was a lot more to it, but this was on the face of things. And nobody cared to look behind the face.

Panickingpavlova · 01/08/2021 14:36

Out of interest if someone had all their dc taken away, just how bad would it have to be at home??

HunkyPunk · 01/08/2021 14:37

FWIW I do think that 'maverick' parenting is undoubtedly tolerated more if it occurs in middle/upper class (comfortably off/monied) families, than in those living in poverty.

Walkaround · 01/08/2021 14:37

Are you suggesting, @catfunk, that middle class families deserve and need more support from social services than they currently get, or that social services only get involved in people’s lives as a form of punishment? Either way, it’s a well known fact that social services are overstretched and can’t even cope with their current caseloads, let alone adding to them. So who would you prioritise as a social worker? The parents who can afford to waste money shortening their lives and whose children are articulate, well fed and reasonably well behaved, or the parents who have to choose between being well fed or being high, and whose children look unkempt and are acting out?

EarthSight · 01/08/2021 14:38

My friend husband takes cocaine at least every other weekend, wether in a fancy restaurant, dinner party or drinks at friends house.... he must spend around £100 minimum a weekend on it, and drinks heavily on weekends.

Sounds like he could be a character in Fleabag.

HappyMcflappy · 01/08/2021 14:39

@Bryonyshcmyony I don’t hang out with them any more. In my twenties they were the fun crowd, I never took drugs so I was oblivious for years. I genuinely thought everybody went to the toilets together to chat and I was being left out. Then they had kids, I started noticing little things until then it just started being quite obvious what was going on.

MissM2912 · 01/08/2021 14:42

Panickingpavlova It takes an awful lot for children to removed, and even then it is generally only after interventions such as family support have failed.
So for example a case of long standing drug use/ chaotic/ older kids engaging in criminal behaviour/ poor school attendance is in a situation I know of NOT enough to warrant removal of children as mum has a support worker. Is it a good environment for a child to be in- no- but house is clean and kids fed so left where they are.
In the cases I know of where kids have been removed there tends to be serious domestic violence which the children have witnessed combined with drink/drugs and kids left on their own for a night. And even then only removed after given a chance to improve the situation.
All the middle class examples above might warrant a wrap over the wrist but not removal.

Killahangilion · 01/08/2021 14:42

@Bryonyshcmyony
But they literally are on your radar as you are learning about it - why aren't social services doing anything about it?!

You really don’t get it, do you?
These types of parents who are extremely neglectful have serious money and contacts in the right places, so a whisper in the right ear and the whole problem is conveniently forgotten about and written off as ‘a minor indiscretion’.

If anyone in SS tried to push it further, it’s their own career that would stall.

Whatinthelord · 01/08/2021 14:42

I do think that parents class has an impact on how their parenting is viewed and that poorer families can be viewed more negatively for the same behaviour a middle class family might not be viewed as negatively for.

Example - children being given more freedom to roam and play around their local area. This could be viewed as children being given freedom to explore, socialise and play away from screens or could be viewed as children being neglected and causing nuisance.

Having worked in social care I also do think that a parents level of education, wealth and ability to work the system can make a difference in the outcome. I don’t think it ever happened purposefully (eg I don’t think anyone ever thought “oh I’ll let this woman off because she’s posh”) but I think it was probably more of an unconscious bias.

EssentialHummus · 01/08/2021 14:42

Middle class kids often looked unkempt but of course it's absolutely fine and a sign of a bohemian lifestyle rather than neglect

I was going to say this. Round my way there’s a certain look to the MC kids that involves holey tights, holey jumpers (but Boden/Joules/JoJo/Scandi brands), handed-down Hatley wellies and a good covering of mud. Because nobody would look twice and think “Oh, they can’t afford to dress their kids.”

EarthSight · 01/08/2021 14:43

@WombatChocolate Are you from the U.S? Here in the U.K, we don't really recognise the whole 'white collar' and 'blue collar' descriptions - they are pretty American terms. Here we have a system that's still very class based, in England especially, and I would recognise the people she's talking about as middle to upper class. You can only fit a small amount of people into a terraced house with a small yard at the back to hang washing. No room for big gatherings or dinner parties.

CanICelebrate · 01/08/2021 14:43

Some of these examples (such as the cocaine garden party) are extreme and obviously inappropriate with children about.

However, some of the other examples are really not such a big deal. Where I live there is always a glass of Prosecco for parents at children’s parties (I don’t drink myself but the option is there), if we go out at the weekend or have friends over then we get takeaway the next day for dc if we can’t be bothered to cook, our cleaner comes for an extra few hours a week if we are entertaining (or just too tired to clean from working full time!) and we eat out if we run out of food the day before our shopping delivery.
There is literally nothing wrong with any of those things!

EssentialHummus · 01/08/2021 14:44

And not coping with the kids can be solved by buying in more childcare.

Whatinthelord · 01/08/2021 14:44

@HunkyPunk

FWIW I do think that 'maverick' parenting is undoubtedly tolerated more if it occurs in middle/upper class (comfortably off/monied) families, than in those living in poverty.
Yes instead of being viewed as neglectful it’s viewed as alternative or even progressive/free.
allyouneedisconnection · 01/08/2021 14:45

I agree with you op. I do think being middle class buys you some privilege in terms of getting away with behaviour other people can't.

WombatChocolate · 01/08/2021 14:45

No, not American! Home Counties Brit.

catfunk · 01/08/2021 14:45

@Walkaround

Are you suggesting, *@catfunk*, that middle class families deserve and need more support from social services than they currently get, or that social services only get involved in people’s lives as a form of punishment? Either way, it’s a well known fact that social services are overstretched and can’t even cope with their current caseloads, let alone adding to them. So who would you prioritise as a social worker? The parents who can afford to waste money shortening their lives and whose children are articulate, well fed and reasonably well behaved, or the parents who have to choose between being well fed or being high, and whose children look unkempt and are acting out?
@Walkaround I dont know much about SS at all tbh so I wouldn't suggest they should or shouldn't be involved. My point was that some groups are demonised for this behaviour and some groups can happily crack in without any repercussions.
OP posts:
MissM2912 · 01/08/2021 14:46

Killahangilion That is absolute nonsense! You can’t whisper in social workers ears so they back off! Honestly.
Also social workers can’t remove children- Judges in a private family court do.

Panickingpavlova · 01/08/2021 14:47

Miss me, thanks, in thinking of a family where drug or alcohol use is unlikely but had all dc removed.

Interesting points on here, I suppose it is also how much these behaviour impact on life chances really.. In a small flat with drunk parents, no where to escape too.. No culture, education, no thought about how to parent compared with educated people who do consciously parent, educate support education and maybe drink but the child has space to retreat too and it doesn't impact them?

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