To think that 'middle class' parents get away with murder

[catfunk]

I grew up in a beautiful but modest part of the north with a fair amount of poverty and unemployment. Lots of families were under social services' care (?) police called out a lot, etc.

I now live in a fairly expensive city in the south, a fairly left wing liberal place where people party, lots of mums are 'trendy' types and generational wealth is quite common.

It struck me the other day that if the parents in my home town behaved like the parents in my current home there'd be real repercussions.
Noisy house parties whilst kids are in bed upstairs, parents getting drunk and staying out all night, recreational drug taking and being too hungover to do the school run. But it's ok because they're drinking champagne and expensive gin instead of tenants, and expensive cannabis tinctures instead of smoking resin?

None of the kids seem unhappy or affected and they do have lovely family times together of course but AIBU To think this is not fair ?

[AudacityBaby]

@IntermittentParps

I know what you mean, OP. I'm a bit about the recent/current slew of books and blogs and what-have-you about proudly messy parents (Slummy Mummy, Gin O'Clock etc), not to mention the constant SM chorus of 'wine o'clock' and 'ooh, I seem to have downed a bottle, ha ha' etc etc.
If this was people on a council estate talking about chucking some fish fingers at the kids and escaping into a bath with a triple gin, there'd be censure. But because these are MC people and they're doing it 'ironically', we're all meant to giggle along.

Agreed. “Why Mummy Drinks” is the one that shocks me. Raised by an alcoholic mum who complained endlessly about how unenjoyable it was to have kids, I don’t find it remotely funny. It would never be allowed to be a book title for something written by a non-MC mother.

[IntermittentParps]

I know what you mean, OP. I'm a bit about the recent/current slew of books and blogs and what-have-you about proudly messy parents (Slummy Mummy, Gin O'Clock etc), not to mention the constant SM chorus of 'wine o'clock' and 'ooh, I seem to have downed a bottle, ha ha' etc etc.
If this was people on a council estate talking about chucking some fish fingers at the kids and escaping into a bath with a triple gin, there'd be censure. But because these are MC people and they're doing it 'ironically', we're all meant to giggle along.

[YouJustFoldItIn]

But it's ok because they're drinking champagne and expensive gin instead of tenants, and expensive cannabis tinctures instead of smoking resin?

No that's not correct. If it were, then you could give poor disadvantaged chaotic people more expensive alcohol and better quality drugs. Do you think it would make a difference to the outcomes for their children or the consequences for themselves?

[jpbee]

I've know quite a diverse mix of families, but mostly middle class and have never come across the behaviour you describe. I'd imagine that sort of thing is quite rare so it's unlucky you have ended up living close to so many families like that, hopefully it's not contagious.

[Nevermakeit]

@PanicBuyerOfGin

I agree about the McCanns though. If they had been wc, unemployed parents getting pissed in their local.pub whilst they left their kids home alone then SS would (quite rightly) have intervened. As they are "respectable" MC doctors who were at a Tapas bar with their doctor friends, they had celebrities falling over themselves to donate money etc, and the press on the whole very supportive

I totally disagree with the above. The McCanns faced constant criticism and judgement. And not long after when Shannon Mathews went missing, the press were nothing but supportive of her mother right up to the real truth coming out, despite her chain-smoking, many boyfriends, sofa-slobbing lifestyle. It was like the McCanns were fair game but the working-class weren't.

Agree with this. The McCanns were heavily criticised, in no way did they get off lightly.

[Nevermakeit]

I don't know where you live, but I don't recognise this at all (and I have lived in quite a few middle class areas).
Sweeping generalisation based on a couple of isolated families/comments perhaps?

[Chakraleaf]

Not poverty as that's a bit different but I know solid middle class parents are real scummy, kids never bath, fed naff food, endless junk, kids have unsupervised access to phones etc whereas ive always made sure mine are super clean and tidy and I'm lower class.

[Igneo]

@julieca i take your point. It just grates when people make assumptions that wc families are more likely to neglect appearances. More secure families can afford to neglect appearances, and focus on substance instead, as they aren’t wasting energy worrying about whether they’d be judged as inadequate.

[Pascal80]

@NickyOy

And why Madeleine McCanns parents got away with leaving their kids in an apartment when they were out having a meal. If that was a working class family they would have had social services come down on them like a tonne of bricks

100% this ^

[PanicBuyerOfGin]

I agree about the McCanns though. If they had been wc, unemployed parents getting pissed in their local.pub whilst they left their kids home alone then SS would (quite rightly) have intervened. As they are "respectable" MC doctors who were at a Tapas bar with their doctor friends, they had celebrities falling over themselves to donate money etc, and the press on the whole very supportive

I totally disagree with the above. The McCanns faced constant criticism and judgement. And not long after when Shannon Mathews went missing, the press were nothing but supportive of her mother right up to the real truth coming out, despite her chain-smoking, many boyfriends, sofa-slobbing lifestyle. It was like the McCanns were fair game but the working-class weren't.

[JudgeJ]

@julieca

Yes boarding schools for some families are effectively paid care homes.

In the same way that school is considered free child minding by many,

[GETTINGLIKEMYMOTHER]

I’m not sure why ‘middle class’ is so often equated with having plenty of money.
I don’t think it’s necessarily the case at all, and wasn’t even decades ago when I was a child, any more than working class’ (if we have to use such terms) necessarily means poor, let alone poverty-stricken.

[RIPIgglePiggle]

I do think there is something in this. I’ve dealt with quite a few cases where I think intervention is needed because of negligence or emotional abuse the child is being exposed to. But another professional has had a different view because they’re presented with a clean home, well spoken parents and food in the cupboards. I think we are all guilty of making judgements based upon class without even thinking about it. It’s an unconscious bias in the same way studies are done about the unconscious bias of race.

[nokidshere]

@BringMeTea am so sorry you had such an horrific experience @nokidshere and I hope your life is much better now.

I have the life I always wanted 😁 stable, loving, calm, happy. Thank you x

[stayathomer]

Ha ha! Does anyone really go tee total for 18 years when they have kids? No glass bottle of wine on a Saturday night? No date nights? Presumably no champers at Christmas or on Birthdays? Just in case a child suddenly keels over and needs driving to hospital?? How dull.
Um, I think you'll find a lot of people like this, getting drunk isn't worth it when you have children (and isn't necessary either!!)

[stayathomer]

I always remember 3 little bullies, brothers, that lived down from us. Middle class area, their dad was a doctor, their mum the school secretary. My mum always said if they lived just ten minutes down the road they'd be dealt with by the police but they wore amazing clothes and went to a private school, played rugby, the works! I think the difference is though that in a poor area there's a danger children are not being fed, are living in conditions bad for their physical health, eg damp etc and that's possibly what ss has to prioritize

[AudacityBaby]

[quote Ticksallboxes]@AudacityBaby I'm so sorry you had that experience. Is life ok for you now?[/quote]
Thank you for saying that. It's different. I no longer have contact with them, after 20 years of struggling on. I'm not really sure what adult life is supposed to look like, but I'm muddling through.

[julieca]

@MrsBobDylan I am so sorry to hear that. Its not that people thought you were worthless, its that so many people don't report to Social Services when they should. You see threads on MN sometimes of people asking whether they should report when it is obvious they should, but they are worried about any fallout from a report.
If you have to ask yourself if you should report something to SS, the answer should always be yes. And I have.

[Applesonthelawn]

Ha ha! Does anyone really go tee total for 18 years when they have kids? No glass bottle of wine on a Saturday night? No date nights? Presumably no champers at Christmas or on Birthdays? Just in case a child suddenly keels over and needs driving to hospital?? How dull.

Why is it dull not to drink? I pretty much didn't drink for 18 years, not at all in the first 7 years when I was a single parent. What is shocking is the way we as a society can't believe we are happy, functioning and social unless there are regular amounts of alcohol around. I appreciate I may have a skewed view having grown up with a highly functioning alcoholic father, but still, why can't you find your lives bearable, or even just acceptably interesting, without alcohol?

[MrsBobDylan]

We were middle class kids growing up in a lovely village, lots of extra curricular activities etc.

We were also victims of physical and emotional abuse and neglected.

Of the adults who came into our lives (left home alone while parents went abroad, for example, Mum asked the woman up the road to 'pop in'), I can confirm that nobody gave a shit about us.

When the hospital wanted to do a referral to SS after my brother broke his arm for a second time at 2 yrs old, my friend's Mum, who was a nurse, vouched for my parents, saying we were 'a nice family'.

People who wouldn't have dreamed of leaving their kids home alone to holiday abroad, knew my parents did that and must have thought we were so worthless, we didn't deserve protecting. That's how it feels to me now anyway.

[Placido]

I think the real difference is seen in the media portrayal of the different classes than in social services interest. The Prosecco mum is portrayed as fun and at worst a little bit frivolous - the lager mum as a scourge on society who is bringing up dreadful children. Although some of the parents I met when I was at boarding school should have been locked up for their abusive and negligent parenting, but I think this is more the upper echelons of the middle class.

[TillyTopper]

We are in a very middle class area. There are no noisy house parties - certainly nothing past say 11:30pm; I've not seen people walking about drunk with kids and certainly not seen recreational drug taking. If these things are common I would say the area isn't middle class. What's your definition of it?

[julieca]

@Igneo I honestly think that many on this thread don't understand how bad things have to get and how high the threshold can be in some areas for intervention. Nobody cares about scruffy clothes, kids needing a haircut or being fed unhealthy food. They don't even care about drug-taking parents as long as there are not lots of dodgy people in and out of the house, the kids are being looked after in a fashion, and drugs arent being left around for toddlers or babies to eat.

[RavingAnnie]

"Noisy house parties whilst kids are in bed upstairs, parents getting drunk and staying out all night, recreational drug taking and being too hungover to do the school run. "

I don't see any problem with any of that tbh except not taking kids to school if too hungover (and am assuming here there are babysitters when parents were out all night. obviously leaving kids alone is not ok).

As long as the kids are generally well cared for, clean, fed, stimulated, loved, given clear and consistent boundaries, whether or not the parents are working or middle class.

Ime SS involvement comes when there are not only the things you describe happening but ALSO many of the things in my list are also not in place. SS look at the overall picture.

[julieca]

@IncessantNameChanger most social work departments have too many cases and too many vacancies. If they know your kids are doing okay, then they will see you as a very low priority. The focus will be on families with disabled children where the children are at risk (disabled children suffer higher rates of child abuse than non-disabled children) or where the family is in crisis e.g. at risk of eviction, mum close to abandoning kids, etc. A mum struggling with disabled kids but whose kids are largely okay, will not be on their radar.