To think that 'middle class' parents get away with murder

[catfunk]

I grew up in a beautiful but modest part of the north with a fair amount of poverty and unemployment. Lots of families were under social services' care (?) police called out a lot, etc.

I now live in a fairly expensive city in the south, a fairly left wing liberal place where people party, lots of mums are 'trendy' types and generational wealth is quite common.

It struck me the other day that if the parents in my home town behaved like the parents in my current home there'd be real repercussions.
Noisy house parties whilst kids are in bed upstairs, parents getting drunk and staying out all night, recreational drug taking and being too hungover to do the school run. But it's ok because they're drinking champagne and expensive gin instead of tenants, and expensive cannabis tinctures instead of smoking resin?

None of the kids seem unhappy or affected and they do have lovely family times together of course but AIBU To think this is not fair ?

Not coping with the dc and buying in childcare, or not coping with the housework and buying in a cleaner, are privileges of being wealthy. It doesn’t mean the parents are doing anything neglectful or wrong by choosing to do this.

@NickyOy

And why Madeleine McCanns parents got away with leaving their kids in an apartment when they were out having a meal. If that was a working class family they would have had social services come down on them like a tonne of bricks

If they were working class, they would have been done for neglect.

@CanICelebrate

Some of these examples (such as the cocaine garden party) are extreme and obviously inappropriate with children about.

However, some of the other examples are really not such a big deal. Where I live there is always a glass of Prosecco for parents at children’s parties (I don’t drink myself but the option is there), if we go out at the weekend or have friends over then we get takeaway the next day for dc if we can’t be bothered to cook, our cleaner comes for an extra few hours a week if we are entertaining (or just too tired to clean from working full time!) and we eat out if we run out of food the day before our shopping delivery.
There is literally nothing wrong with any of those things!

Well change those things to

At kids parties there's always a can of special brew for the parents

If we can't be bothered to cook or there's no food in the fridge we grab them a portion of chips from the takeaway

[quote Killahangilion]@Bryonyshcmyony
But they literally are on your radar as you are learning about it - why aren't social services doing anything about it?!

You really don’t get it, do you?
These types of parents who are extremely neglectful have serious money and contacts in the right places, so a whisper in the right ear and the whole problem is conveniently forgotten about and written off as ‘a minor indiscretion’.

If anyone in SS tried to push it further, it’s their own career that would stall.[/quote]
I’d suggest following whistle blowing procedures if that were the case and talking to your union.

@Panickingpavlova

Miss me, thanks, in thinking of a family where drug or alcohol use is unlikely but had all dc removed.

Interesting points on here, I suppose it is also how much these behaviour impact on life chances really.. In a small flat with drunk parents, no where to escape too.. No culture, education, no thought about how to parent compared with educated people who do consciously parent, educate support education and maybe drink but the child has space to retreat too and it doesn't impact them?

I lived in a big house, went to private school and have lovely holidays. I can assure you having an alcoholic parent significantly impacted me and my life chances

‘@Walkaround I dont know much about SS at all tbh so I wouldn't suggest they should or shouldn't be involved.
My point was that some groups are demonised for this behaviour and some groups can happily crack in without any repercussions.’

They aren’t demonised by Social Services. Social services will investigate any complaint made to them- regardless of background. What they are interested in is EVIDENCE of significant harm. If they choose not to act in a way that you or others feel appropriate it isn’t because they are showing favouritism to middle classes but because they don’t have the evidence base to continue involvement.

100%.

@Comedycook

we can't be bothered to cook or there's no food in the fridge we grab them a portion of chips from the takeaway

That’s fine - same principle! As long as it’s not every night it’s fine.

At kids parties there's always a can of special brew for the parents

One drink for parents is hardly an issue whatever the drink is. Getting pissed at a children’s party (whether on prosecco or special brew) is different.

@Comedycook

Drugs are illegal and a different thing completely in my opinion

Comedycook I have absolutely no doubt having an alcoholic parent caused harm. There are many many people who have experienced significant adverse childhood experiences but sadly social services do not have the resources to intervene in them all so have to look at the situation of families as a whole.

@catfunk Exactly. It’s just seen as completely normal here in that kind of circle. I’ve been to house parties where the children are upstairs with a nanny and the parents are downstairs doing Ecstasy around the swimming pool. Another party the nanny was sent out to go and get MDMA and the police turned up at 6am due to a noise complaint. There was somebody quite famous at that party actually who came through the back gate as they had adjoining gardens who was “desperate for a line” having put her children to bed. I’m not sure if there was an adult in the house looking after her children or if she’d left them alone.

Comedy, it depends on the type of alcoholic parent. Some alcoholics don't impact those around them and some people do

I do agree however that wealth or large houses don't insulate children from trauma at all when they face issues like the this.
It's why I get cross when some old well known poster used to talk about private Ed dc as if they lived in a gilded world untouched by trauma.

[quote CanICelebrate]@Comedycook

Drugs are illegal and a different thing completely in my opinion[/quote]
I presume you've been brought up by either an alcohol or drug addicted parent to make such a statement?

OP I agree with you.

It’s not just children though is it - having money or being seen as middle class and above gets you away with a lot more than you would be able to being from a poorer background.

It’s class privilege isn’t it. There are many diff entry privileges afforded to people and being ‘posh’, rich, educated, nicely spoken (accent), attractively dressed with a nice house and a decent car is just as much of a privilege as any other.

I live in a nice area, well it’s a nice village in a not great area but a social worker I was talking with said she knew the area as she’d had a case a couple of streets away - I showed a little surprise (stupid bias on my side) and she said yes of course abuse and neglect happens in all families and in all classes and just because the family appear clean and tidy and the kids well turned out doesn’t mean everything is happy and healthy.
As a PP said, it’s harder to spot and doesn’t get taken as seriously when the families are middle / upper class.

People tend to laugh off the “gin and prosecco” mums, smile and nod at their “oh it’s 2pm and I NEEEEED a pink gin” statues - but post you’re having “a 4 pack of Stella and a kebab” on Instagram and see if people give you the same love.

‘we can't be bothered to cook or there's no food in the fridge we grab them a portion of chips from the takeaway

That’s fine - same principle! As long as it’s not every night it’s fine.’

Again- not enough to involve social services. Crap parenting but unless it tips in to child being severely obese most social workers will just refer that back to partner organisations to maybe provide a cooking course of workshop. The key is ‘good enough’ parenting.

I don’t recognise this at all but I do agree that middle class families are not under the same scrutiny. My friend is crying out for help from ss but because they are middle class ss don’t want to know.

Not coping with the dc and buying in childcare, or not coping with the housework and buying in a cleaner, are privileges of being wealthy. It doesn’t mean the parents are doing anything neglectful or wrong by choosing to do this.

Of course not. But if social services were to come along and see a happy child (cared for by a nanny) and a clean home (courtesy a cleaner) it'd be much easier for a parent who wasn't coping to stay under the radar. To me it's an example of how money can make some problems go away or stay hidden.

@catfunk

Yes the kids are well fed/ kept. Eg if parents hungover on a Sunday they'll just go for a big pub lunch instead of cooking or order nice food on deliveroo . Cleaner comes once a week . Kids in expensive clothing so never look neglected.

Sounds like us. DS is very happy and very much loved.

[quote MissM2912]‘@Walkaround I dont know much about SS at all tbh so I wouldn't suggest they should or shouldn't be involved.
My point was that some groups are demonised for this behaviour and some groups can happily crack in without any repercussions.’

They aren’t demonised by Social Services. Social services will investigate any complaint made to them- regardless of background. What they are interested in is EVIDENCE of significant harm. If they choose not to act in a way that you or others feel appropriate it isn’t because they are showing favouritism to middle classes but because they don’t have the evidence base to continue involvement.[/quote]

@MissM2912 I never said working classes are demonised by social services and I never said whether or not I think SS intervention is appropriate - I literally said below I don't know enough about/ how SS works to judge.

I am saying that very similar behaviour can be flagged as neglect or thought of as cool/ acceptable depending on ' social status'

m0therofdragons what does your friend think social services will actually do?? they themselves don’t tend to provide support but simply refer out to other services? If she needs help most services take self referrals.

@roarfeckingroarr after a night on the MDMA and no sleep? 😉

And (tangential) I think you have the same in microcosm with baby names. Someone chooses to call their kid Axel or Bun-Bun or something, and it's alright if they have one sort of upbringing but a sign of uneducated/uncouth/whatever parenting if another sort of upbringing.

Every child protection training I have ever been to, and that's a lot after twenty eight years in education, has mentioned that neglect is not class based. I see cases of benign neglect regularly. Kids who are left to their own devices, kids on X boxes till 2 am, kids who eat nothing but processed fat and sugar. However, they all come from nice, middle class homes where nothing else triggers a visit from Social Services. If Social Services looked behind a few doors in a few well to do neighbourhoods, they would probably be shocked.

The impression that I have is that often emotional and physical abuse and neglect are hidden in wealthier families because their children have hobbies, activities, friends and extended family that keep them out of trouble and off the streets.

So Jemima’s mum drinks too much but she is busy with Guides, Pony Club, extra-curricular lessons and sleep overs. While Tracey’s mum also drinks too mich but Tracey is running around the streets and getting into trouble because there is nothing else for her to do. So Tracey gets picked up by school and Social Services while Jemima grows up damaged but without SS involvement.

Both gross stereotypes but illustrating what I mean.

@MissM2912 I never said working classes are demonised by social services and I never said whether or not I think SS intervention is appropriate - I literally said below I don't know enough about/ how SS works to judge.

Sorry you have misunderstood me- I was simply stating that any demonisation was coming from wider society and not social services themselves. They don’t deliberately turn a blind eye to the behaviour of the better off. They just weigh up the evidence and what they can actually do.