To think that 'middle class' parents get away with murder

[catfunk]

I grew up in a beautiful but modest part of the north with a fair amount of poverty and unemployment. Lots of families were under social services' care (?) police called out a lot, etc.

I now live in a fairly expensive city in the south, a fairly left wing liberal place where people party, lots of mums are 'trendy' types and generational wealth is quite common.

It struck me the other day that if the parents in my home town behaved like the parents in my current home there'd be real repercussions.
Noisy house parties whilst kids are in bed upstairs, parents getting drunk and staying out all night, recreational drug taking and being too hungover to do the school run. But it's ok because they're drinking champagne and expensive gin instead of tenants, and expensive cannabis tinctures instead of smoking resin?

None of the kids seem unhappy or affected and they do have lovely family times together of course but AIBU To think this is not fair ?

I look forward to the equivalent thread where middle class parents take lumps out of working class parents and talk about negligent they are.

I would also argue that it's outward appearances that count. The working class parents who you describe, partying and drinking, drug taking etc are probably more likely to send their kids to school dirty and inappropriately dressed. The middle class parents will still have their kids looking respectable. So it's less likely to be flagged up.

We grew up poor and neglected/abused. Council house, both parents on benefits etc. However my mum liked to think she was a cut above everyone and looked down her nose at most people. I was badly abused however she always made a point of coming across as the great mother, we always had clean clothes and she put on a great (fake) front to the school about being a fantastic mother who took great care of her kids. Despite me actually plucking up the courage to tell a teacher what was going on. So we never got any help from anyone and had to suffer throughout or childhood and teen years. Simply because she was able to put on a good front.

It all depends on whether children are at risk but you stated in your OP - none of the kids seem unhappy or affected and they do have lovely family times together of course

I am sure that if you have concerns for these children's' welfare and safety you have already reported them to social services, the police, NSPCC.

Social services are not the parenting police to pull people up on things that you do not approve of. They are there to support families and protect those at risk.

Buccanarab. That is nonsense. And I say that as someone with significant experience in this area. Social services will genuinely only get involved if the child is at real enduring risk of harm. Even in poor areas anti social behaviour alone will not warrant it. There are loads of drug users/ drinkers/ people with chaotic lifestyles/ people with significant hygiene issues who do not have kids on CPR.

Definitely this. In my 40yrs working with children I have stood in court to have children removed from their parents many times. From wealthy addresses and poor addresses.

It's never about the address and all about the neglect/abuse.

@Thisisworsethananticpated

Not read the full thread but have you called social services if you're aware of children being neglected while parents are taking drugs and drinking?

The brutal facts are many children far far worse
Off arnt being saved
We know this , it’s all over the news , and we know that child protection services are overwhelmed and totally underfunded

So why would this even be an option ? What would it change ? Nothing

I still would have to, for my own conscience, make the call. It might have stopped kids like me and my siblings being abused and neglected, despite the outward appearances.

I look forward to the equivalent thread where middle class parents take lumps out of working class parents and talk about negligent they are.

To be fair, that happens quite often, together with all sorts of stereotypes about working class parents being feckless and having all had 10 kids just so as to claim all the child benefits (yes, I know you can only get child tax credits for 2 kids, but that never got in the way of a good stereotype!

@AlfonsoTheUnrepentant

I look forward to the equivalent thread where middle class parents take lumps out of working class parents and talk about negligent they are.

That is pretty much everyday life in MN. I am guessing you haven't noticed as you are middle class.

PLEASE LOOK AT ME I AM MIDDLE CLASS HONEST I DIDNT COME FROM A DEPRESSED AREA I MARRIED WELL HE"S GOT A 6 FIGURE SALARY, dribble dribble LOOK AT ME I AM SO MIDLLE CLASS I AM TERRIFIED YOULL ALL THINK I M URGGGGGHHHH LOWER WORKING! slobber slobber.

Sorry folks, just having a MN fart.

...and ss have come and been all over me one took offence to the fact I had no carpet on my stairs (at the point I had just moved in and hadn’t got round to it)

That's ridiculous. I've had no carpet on my stairs for 4 years (can't decide what colour carpet to have until the hall has been tiled and can't have carpet fitted until the bannisters have been replaced). Haven't had vinyl in the bathroom for three years (we have the vinyl ready, and waiting but can't find a carpet fitter prepared to quote for a small job, where the floor covering is supplied by customer).

Someone should tell that SS person, that stripped and/or painted staircases are a thing: www.pinterest.co.uk/pin/1548181107072925/
www.pinterest.co.uk/pin/289145238580487380/

@Wafflesnsniffles

Someone has bumped a thread from August! Thought it seemed familiar

What do middle class zombies eat though? Sauteed brains on sourdough?

I grew up in a violent, chaotic, neglectful household in a similar area of the north. Mum walked out leaving 6 children under 10 with alcoholic dad. We had no food, no money, no clean clothes. We rarely went to school. Me and my older sister (8 & 10) stole money from dad when he was passed out drunk if he had any left, we stole from the neighbours, we begged at the local shop for food 'on tick'. The house was filthy and in disrepair.

No one did a damn thing. We lived like that for 4yrs before SS finally stepped in and removed us.

Shrinkingviolet the no carpet thing on stairs was about safety from what I remember so gripper rods and nails sticking up are dangerous rather than properly finished pininterest style stairs. I can remember taking photos of stairs that parents had painted bright colours with odds and ends of paint to show it was a deliberate choice not dangerous. They had no money for carpet but had tried to make it nice for the children.

I am so sorry you had such an horrific experience @nokidshere and I hope your life is much better now.

@dd1 I agree the McCanns were vilified by the media and by the public. Others in their group had done the same. However, I’m old enough to remember when families at holiday camps like Butlins left small children alone in their chalets in the evenings whilst they went dancing, or to a show etc.

The ‘baby sitters’ consisted of a patrol that walked round the site listening for babies or children crying. A message would be relayed over loud speakers for the parents to ‘go to chalet 23, there is a crying child’. Of course that hasn’t been the case for some time, but I don’t remember any outcry.

@Seymour5 I went to Butlins as a kid when that system was in place. My mum wouldn't leave us with that system in place, but lots did. It was just seen as different parenting styles then.

Brighton?

I have already commented on this thread.

I am on my childs third disability SW and dispite being in post since August she has never met my kids or been in my home. I could so easily hid any possible neglect from her it would almost be effortless to do so. The level of disinterest and need to see nothing due to high workload is shocking. Some times the wheels do fall off for us but looking to my SW for help isnt on my radar any more.

Luckily for my kids they have a happy for filled life free of neglect. But I just dont see SWs doing anything deeper than a cursory glance in the current financial climate

@Seymour5 this was the practice at Mark Warner resorts when I visited in 2005. Very middle class resort and deemed perfectly acceptable by many of the clientele. I expect this changed pdq after the McCann case (which I believe was a holiday arranged with MW, but not their own resort, so a different set up).

My take on this is that it's about the kids' welfare. Money affords intervention - Deliveroo, a cleaner, childcare - so the kids are more likely to be absolutely fine if mummy gets a bit too pissed once a month.

There is a difference in ordering something fairly healthy to be delivered and feeding your kids just chips on a regular basis. There's nothing so bad about not washing your kids' clothes when you have someone who does your laundry, ironing and keeps the home clean.

I think in both 'classes' the focus is always on the impact on the children.

If mum is hungover from late night drinks while the kids are in bed, so dad takes them out alone the following day, there isn't really any impact on them?

Same with if money is spent on drinks/parties or whatever but there is still ample money for the children to have everything they need.

If middle class parents were neglecting their children then I'm sure they would be flagged to SS just as readily as a working class family would. It's just that there is more resource available for MC families to make sure children are not neglected.

This is not something I’ve come across either OP and most of my friends are probably middle class. Conversely the children I’ve come across where the actions of their parents are questionable are working class.

Regarding my post above I’m not saying all working class parents, probably about 3 or 4 at my DCs school

@Apeirogon

I'm middle class and don't recognise the things you describe. Getting drunk and staying out all night? Do you mean leaving the kids at home n their own??

Me neither and I'm as middle class as they come.

Someone has a VERY large chip on her shoulder.

That's a good point - spending part of a very small budget on alcohol is deeply selfish and poor parenting because you're depriving the children of things they need. Spending part of a large budget is a different ballgame because it's unlikely to impact the children.

@Abouttimemum

I own a house in a part social housing estate and there’s no repercussions here either.

Parties, kids running about in the busy street with no parental supervision, loads of anti social behaviour, noisy motor bikes, littering, shouting, drinking and drugs. We never see the police (because quite rightly they’re off dealing with what are deemed as serious crimes or whatever the topical political issue of the day is) although the council are quite helpful but can only do so much. I won’t be critical of the police because essentially the behaviour is Neanderthal like and lacks just basic respect and manners.

I think there are selfish, shitty parents no matter what walk of life you’re in. And the behaviour gets passed down the generations. Like the idea of having a kid but not the work that goes with it.

Thankfully there are many, many, many more people who do care and are brought up with respect for their peers and environment, and their children.

I live in a social housing house on a new development which is partly privately owned and I can assure you that NONE of us behave in that manner? We all take good care of our homes & gardens, and our kids! No parties at all as it happens and no noise. We all live & behave precisely how everyone else does. It's a lovely area in fact. Very peaceful