To think that 'middle class' parents get away with murder

[catfunk]

I grew up in a beautiful but modest part of the north with a fair amount of poverty and unemployment. Lots of families were under social services' care (?) police called out a lot, etc.

I now live in a fairly expensive city in the south, a fairly left wing liberal place where people party, lots of mums are 'trendy' types and generational wealth is quite common.

It struck me the other day that if the parents in my home town behaved like the parents in my current home there'd be real repercussions.
Noisy house parties whilst kids are in bed upstairs, parents getting drunk and staying out all night, recreational drug taking and being too hungover to do the school run. But it's ok because they're drinking champagne and expensive gin instead of tenants, and expensive cannabis tinctures instead of smoking resin?

None of the kids seem unhappy or affected and they do have lovely family times together of course but AIBU To think this is not fair ?

I agree entirely, and see it all the time where I live.

@NickyOy

And why Madeleine McCanns parents got away with leaving their kids in an apartment when they were out having a meal. If that was a working class family they would have had social services come down on them like a tonne of bricks

Just what I was about to say.

Not something I recognise nowadays, but I remember a lot of this happening with friend’s parents (70/80’s). I remember my boyfriend’s parents having some mad parties. My parents were quite tame in comparison.

I’m sure it still goes on and yes, I think it is overlooked in a way it wouldn’t be if they weren’t well off.

OP I think we live in the same city (maybe even have the exact same postcode)!!

I know absolutely loads of people like the ones you describe and one of my closest friends is the epitome of this.

We've all got older teenage children now and many of them are emulating their parents behaviour. My DS went to a couple of parties recently and confessed that he'd paid for three lines of cocaine at both!!

Luckily he's a bit more introverted and doesn't go to so many big parties and he's very transparent with us about what he gets up to, but I do wonder what effect the class A drugs are going to have on many of his more sociable peers by the time they're about 25.

Some of the hardest partiers are the brightest too, with aspirations of university and high earning careers.

‘ See also the mcanns. If they had been drinking lager at a bar on a caravan site when their daughter went missing, instead of sipping wine at a bistro in an expensive resort the press, social services etc would have hung them out to dry’

The UK press crawled over them many times over, & public opinion was not kind towards them.

The bar for SS intervention in family life is set high for a variety of reasons. Imagine if every parent were held to account for every slip or misjudgement over the span of parenting years, irrespective of the outcome for the child.

My never-ever is someone else’s OK.
Nowt to do with social class.

Yes I agree OP. Although it is also true that well off people can afford to insulate themselves from the impact of their bad behaviour. When I was very young I worked with children. I heard so many tales of underpaid nannies trying to protect young children from parents who had wild parties and left their drugs lying around.

@AudacityBaby I'm so sorry you had that experience. Is life ok for you now?

Completely and unequivocally agree!

Statement is as true today as it was 20 years ago. 20 years ago, i grew up as part of a middle class family and was abused by my brother and mother. Friends parents knew, teachers knew, a and e with broken bones and bruises- no safe guarding followed, neighbours knew, i even told the police and nothing was done. There is no doubt in my mind that this is because we were a white middle class family so a blind eye was turned

I honestly can’t see anything wrong with dad taking kids out for the day if their mum is hungover. Leaving children to fend for themselves because of a hangover is different. That’s neglect. Children growing up in sociable houses where their parents entertain friends and talk to their kids is not neglect-and believe it or not, working class people do that too. No SS involved. Illegal drug taking is something else again-irrespective of social class. I’d imagine most middle class areas don’t really have parents getting off their faces every weekend.

Someone has bumped a thread from August! Thought it seemed familiar

Yes I agree OP. Although it is also true that well off people can afford to insulate themselves from the impact of their bad behaviour

This is the long and short of it isn't it, referrals wont be made as the children will be dropped off at school on time in clean uniform with a packed lunch or dinner money, which could be the result of paid services such as childcare, cleaners and laundry services and the like. I worry for children in those circles as anything sinister is far less likely to be picked up.

When I worked with delinquent teenagers, it was said that Harpenden had the second highest level of child abuse after Virginia Water.

Sounds like my friendship group although I’m a bit on the outer with this. The problem is that it’s not now the kids are affected, it’s later on as adults. Psychologically I think the kids are absolutely neglected. Seeing their parents partying and carrying on I don’t think imo is healthy at all.

I agree with you OP.

Money is the crash pad that rescues children whose parents have dropped them - MC pay for nannies as substitute for drunk mums, the home was bought by inheritance so no eviction, deliveroo feeds the kids.

SS acknowledge this - the abuse is the same in all classes, but the effects are less in the MC cos they buy substitute parents.

Not read the full thread but have you called social services if you're aware of children being neglected while parents are taking drugs and drinking?

I'm pretty sure there was a case on the news where the woman was on it saying she obviously had PND when her DC was born and she was in hospital but they perceived her to be middle class and it was overlooked.

In the area of London I'm from, there are lots of middle class people taking drugs, parenting badly and failing to protect their children adequately. This is especially so as it is gentrified where this kind of "free spirited" behaviour is seen as the norm.

I have not read the whole thread.
But I suspect (I am not a social worker) that one of the biggest motivators and raison d'etre for social services is not the welfare/best interests of the child (of course that is a very big one but....) but the cost to the state if it all goes out of control and the state has to foot the bill of temporary or permanent care for the child/children.

In other words it is all about the money.
So social services will look at a wealthy family and decide provided the "stick" they can wield is big enough ("we will take your kids off you unless you xyz") the money is there (albeit private family money) to give the children alternative temporary or permanent privately funded (i.e. family money) care - thus saving the state from paying.
So the children from these families will be dismissed as "ok" because there is someone footing the bill somewhere (who is not the state).

Of course being able to pay for it in no way equates to good parenting, but the "softer" skills of parenting are not something social workers will ever or ever have provided (hence childrens homes).

I expect there will be plenty of people who disagree with this post but I want to say it anyway (I have not read the whole thread).

I used to be involved in child protection work on legal side. The families often had come to attention due to lack of money. One family dad was picked up by police drunk, out begging for alcohol money and it transpired mum alone with several little children and a newborn unable to read and make baby milk up safely. If dad hadn’t been begging it wouldn’t have come on anyone’s radar.
Small child being sent with £2 to chippy for her tea every night risks being reported - too young to be out, no coat, dark, where’s mummy - asleep again. Same scenario but takeaway delivery from just eat and no one sees.
A child was being left with very elderly infirm relative whilst single mum worked abroad. She had untreated nits etc. There were concerns but mum moved her to boarding school age 10.
Lots of uniform and clothes so no washing done for a few weeks as mum drinking child still has appropriate clean clothes to wear and no one any the wiser.

It’s a long time ago but good enough was test I recall. Something in to make a meal eg Fish fingers and tin of beans, somewhere for child to sleep and some form of bedding on child’s bed. Even in most dysfunctional middle class households there will be that.

Yes boarding schools for some families are effectively paid care homes.

I often think this about celebrities. They can be barely there or drink/drugs but have small children. I assume it’s because they have a nanny or several nannies providing care or use boarding schools when older.
Jude Law/Sadie Frosts then 2 year old daughter eating ecstasy tablet at a child’s birthday party springs to mind.

See also the mcanns. If they had been drinking lager at a bar on a caravan site when their daughter went missing, instead of sipping wine at a bistro in an expensive resort the press, social services etc would have hung them out to dry

The press did. Moreover, IIRC the McCanns were at a resort which specifically advertised its ability to keep an eye on children when the parents were not with them. Nowadays, partly because of what happened to Madeleine McCann, this would be regarded as unsatisfactory, and is presumably illegal, but this was not the case at that time.

50 years ago, it was not uncommon for children to be sent out to play and stay out of the hair of the grown-ups for much of the day when not in school. This happened in all social classes, but was doubtless more dangerous in poorer families who didn't have gardens, and were more likely to live in high-crime, high-traffic neighbourhoods.

It's certainly true that there is sometimes a tendency to assume that middle-class parents cannot be abusive or neglectful. I have known a child whose stepfather was inclined to get drunk and hit her, and this was not believed for a long time because of his highly 'respectable' position. I had friends as a child, whose mother was middle-class and also seriously neglectful and emotionally abusive (father was dead), and am sure that they got less outside help because the mother was stereotyped as competent because of her social class.

@dd1 I was brought up in a very poor neighbourhood, we all played outside. But there was loads of natural supervision. We all knew each other, so loads of kids about and usually at least one mum looking out the window. It was actually very safe. As a child, I knew all the neighbours along the street.

Not read the full thread but have you called social services if you're aware of children being neglected while parents are taking drugs and drinking?

The brutal facts are many children far far worse
Off arnt being saved
We know this , it’s all over the news , and we know that child protection services are overwhelmed and totally underfunded

So why would this even be an option ? What would it change ? Nothing