To think that 'middle class' parents get away with murder

[catfunk]

I grew up in a beautiful but modest part of the north with a fair amount of poverty and unemployment. Lots of families were under social services' care (?) police called out a lot, etc.

I now live in a fairly expensive city in the south, a fairly left wing liberal place where people party, lots of mums are 'trendy' types and generational wealth is quite common.

It struck me the other day that if the parents in my home town behaved like the parents in my current home there'd be real repercussions.
Noisy house parties whilst kids are in bed upstairs, parents getting drunk and staying out all night, recreational drug taking and being too hungover to do the school run. But it's ok because they're drinking champagne and expensive gin instead of tenants, and expensive cannabis tinctures instead of smoking resin?

None of the kids seem unhappy or affected and they do have lovely family times together of course but AIBU To think this is not fair ?

NiceGerbil You sound very angry about your friends experience and seem to be directing it at me.
When I said ‘do anything’ I meant remove the child.
Social services are extremely stretched- the MIGHT have offered to refer father for help with his alcoholism, but even with rehabilitation the chance of success is only about 10/12%.
They MIGHT have offered to refer the mother to women’s aid- but again, in situations like this, in the majority of cases the women either stays or goes back.
But beyond that there isn’t much social work can do and that is the sad reality. Social workers know this, just many have totally unrealistic expectations on what they can do and what is actually in the best interests of children.

And yes- private schools are generally nice. What do you want me to say ‘they are probably all secretly awful and just letting on to be nice’.

@MissM2912

Nice gerbil social services don’t provide support themselves as such- they signpost and then it is up to the parent themselves to avail of it. Accessing support might be written in to a support/ child’s plan but social work can’t make the parent do it.

No they can't (make) them but it would all be bought up at the next child protection conference and will be reported that mum is not doing as ss are asking thetecfir not working. There for apparently not putting the child first . Although they won't ask mum why she did not do them things asked of her. They just use it to build a negative case. And everyone nods and agrees with the professional because they are automatically right. The mum does not really get any say. She gets to talk but she does not actually get listened to nothing she says is taken on board .

General that is because social works number one priority is the child. It underpins everything.

For example- if social worker says that child needs to be in school on time every morning and mum doesn’t do that, it is irrelevant the reason (generally) as fundamentally the social worker is there for the child and ensuring their needs are met.

That's how I understood it General.

@NiceGerbil I'll tell you the story of Jimmy. His circumstances were similar (drug use and alcohol, DV, bruises etc), but from a WC family. First of all it took quite a few incidents for SS to intervene, including police being called. Police who, when I made my own statement about something I had witnessed told me that 1.the dad was very well known to them and 2. even if the incident wasn't too severe they were gathering everything they could on him.
Then followed a year of visits, advice,suggestions , referrals (which by and large constitute keeping an eye) etc.Hell, even the kid knew the rules which only contributed to his anger and trauma because he couldn't understand why his mum kept breaking them. Then things escalated so eventually he got put into foster care. Mum still had 6 moths before the removal was final to change things. I say mum because the issue was the step dad. That kid was broken and heartbroken but still hoped that eventually he'd be back home. It never happened. Two years later and he was fully gone, including from his school,his friends ,his trusted adults. Completely traumatised in many ways. I hope with all my heart that he's ok and safe now and starting to heal.

You can't help people that don't want to be helped,don't see that there's an issue and don't want to change. SS can't force that change. All they can do is keep an eye, suggest things, signpost services or make referrals (but if people won't engage with them they can't make them) and eventually if nothing changes, remove children which in itself can be traumatic and/or end up in a similar/worse situation.

The middle ground only works when families are willing to put the work in and engage , excluding any rogue agents of course.

Is it just me that thinks this sounds like great fun?!

Obviously when I say fu I mean a nicely balanced mixture of recreational drugs and fun family times, not poor Jimmy's experience that was just posted above mine!

ObviousNameChage Agree. Ultimately it comes down to the parent themselves to change. There is lots of support available but for a multitude of reasons those that need it most often just refuse to engage. And it isn’t social workers fault.

@SeaShoreGalore

Obviously when I say fu I mean a nicely balanced mixture of recreational drugs and fun family times, not poor Jimmy's experience that was just posted above mine!

That was a really bad timing post.

@MissM2912

General that is because social works number one priority is the child. It underpins everything.

I get that . But if mum is taking the child to say soft play . Parks farms etc . Why should mum turn be made to go to a toddler group. And then it put down that mum is not putting child first even though she does all them activities with the child. And even though mum does all them thing it's not mentioned at the conference?

I'm not angry no. It was something that I felt illustrated the OPs point.

I'm answering the posts that you have directed to me.

If I sound a bit... Direct. It's because of the things you have said that I found peculiar. And then saying you hadn't said things that you did.

Women on MN are in all sorts of circs.

Some will be referred to SS some will seek help themselves. The topic of this thread may well mean women in those situations or thinking of seeking help will read it.

Your posts which said. There would be nothing done just keep an eye. In a situation with parents who were serious alcoholics, violent towards each other, very possibly physical with the children, and I'd assume verbal abuse.

Other option is care.

I mean what are lurkers etc to take from that.

You speak as someone who works in the field. What you say comes with authority.

And I didn't think what you said could be right. And another poster has said that's not how it works.
And you have said that's not how it works.

So why say it in the first place?

Generalpost Because they can confirm attendance at the play group, there are probably childcare practitioners there who can comment on attachment, and activities to stimulate the child.
It also reduces isolation as other parents there to build a support network.
Social workers unlikely to have requested it without good reason.

'MissM2912

And yes- private schools are generally nice. What do you want me to say ‘they are probably all secretly awful and just letting on to be nice’.'

No I would expect someone looking into it to talk to the child/ren and ask about school as part of the process.

Assuming a school is 'nice' because it costs money is massive bias.

In the news recently reports of loads of expensive schools having girls sexually assaulted/ raped and taken no action. It was headline.

To assume a school is 'nice' because it's paid for is.. naive? Which isn't a good thing for someone who works in the child protection field IMO.

Yep just look at the McCanns

NiceGerbil I can’t follow what you mean??
What have I said isn’t correct?
I told you when I said ‘do anything’ I meant remove the child.
It is correct there is a staged approach of intervention before it gets to point of removal and I meant, I suppose flippantly which maybe wasn’t very nice, that on what you said it was unlikely to result in removal of the child, more a tick box exercise.

Obvious no sure totally agree.

The OP was about people with money not being looked at in the same way if they get pissed all the time etc.

And I put some reasons I think why. And in general that those with money come to the attention of the authorities less for a variety of reasons.

NiceGerbil The school is irrelevant in the friends situation. I told you I would have said the same regardless if it was state or private.
Social workers don’t investigate schools- Ofsted do that. Social worker would ask if child was attending- if they are that’s seen as good, if not- a problem.

@MissM2912

NiceGerbil I can’t follow what you mean?? What have I said isn’t correct? I told you when I said ‘do anything’ I meant remove the child. It is correct there is a staged approach of intervention before it gets to point of removal and I meant, I suppose flippantly which maybe wasn’t very nice, that on what you said it was unlikely to result in removal of the child, more a tick box exercise.

'But to be completely honest- even if social services had have got involved, it is unlikely they would have done a lot more than keep an eye on things. The reality is, traumatic as it was, if her basic needs were being met, and she was going to a nice school, social services would probably have left her at home as the care system is likely to have been more damaging.'

Ok I will remove ‘nice school’ and just say school. If she was at school and her basic needs were met they wouldn’t have intervened’.

@MissM2912

Generalpost Because they can confirm attendance at the play group, there are probably childcare practitioners there who can comment on attachment, and activities to stimulate the child. It also reduces isolation as other parents there to build a support network. Social workers unlikely to have requested it without good reason.

It's still vert controlling though. I get the post slightly up thread where you spoke about the bad father. and mum having to show that she can move on and keep away from that no good father. She did not so child ended up in care . I do get that totally but not the intervering of every day life like how you entertain your children etc . I think that's wrong. If mum was not really doing them things the child would soon grass on her. I just can't see a sw saying to a middle class family . You need to go to this play group at xx time every week.

Basically I get sw have a job to do I know that they need to make sure a child is sage and put safe . But they can do that without taking over the familys life and Basically controlling 90% of their life

'00:24Generalpost

'I get that . But if mum is taking the child to say soft play . Parks farms etc . Why should mum turn be made to go to a toddler group. And then it put down that mum is not putting child first even though she does all them activities with the child. And even though mum does all them thing it's not mentioned at the conference?'

Agree that's not helpful in any way.

She's doing loads with her child.

But not what is the 'right' thing.

Loads of women really don't like those sorts of things. And that should be fine.

Generalpost It wasn’t me who mentioned controlling father? Don’t know who it was sorry.
With regards to how you entertain your child- that is to do with child development and ensuring child is getting the brain stimulation they need. So while for example a parent might think ‘I took my child to soft play- that’s good’, a social worker might be thinking- child is showing signs of speech delay, not meeting developmental milestones- mum needs to actually take child to rhyme time/ play group to learn turn taking/ conversation etc.
Sounds like that maybe WHY social worker was requested things wasn’t properly explained.

As I said it is irrelevant why mum doesn’t want to do something- I personally hate soft plays for example, it is all about what the child actually needs to thrive.