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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

See all MNHQ comments on this thread

To think that 'middle class' parents get away with murder

901 replies

catfunk · 01/08/2021 12:59

I grew up in a beautiful but modest part of the north with a fair amount of poverty and unemployment. Lots of families were under social services' care (?) police called out a lot, etc.

I now live in a fairly expensive city in the south, a fairly left wing liberal place where people party, lots of mums are 'trendy' types and generational wealth is quite common.

It struck me the other day that if the parents in my home town behaved like the parents in my current home there'd be real repercussions.
Noisy house parties whilst kids are in bed upstairs, parents getting drunk and staying out all night, recreational drug taking and being too hungover to do the school run. But it's ok because they're drinking champagne and expensive gin instead of tenants, and expensive cannabis tinctures instead of smoking resin?

None of the kids seem unhappy or affected and they do have lovely family times together of course but AIBU To think this is not fair ?

OP posts:
Bryonyshcmyony · 03/08/2021 07:12

@RickOShay

Of course it isn’t class specific. It’s perhaps better hidden within mc circles. And that’s part of the problem, the reality of children’s lives versus the perception of them. That gap can be massive and damaging.
Yes but this happens in every single type of family.
Bryonyshcmyony · 03/08/2021 07:13

Social services don't have the time to investigate even working class families that hide their alcoholism as plenty do.

RickOShay · 03/08/2021 07:14

What does? The cover up? Not being believed by the police or SS?

Bryonyshcmyony · 03/08/2021 07:16

@RickOShay

What does? The cover up? Not being believed by the police or SS?
Covering up alcoholism so not being investigated by SS.
RickOShay · 03/08/2021 07:24

Ok. I think it’s harder for wc families to cover it up though.

GreatAuntEmily · 03/08/2021 07:26

Alcoholism isn't enough to stop access to a DC

Bryonyshcmyony · 03/08/2021 08:40

@GreatAuntEmily

Alcoholism isn't enough to stop access to a DC
Indeed.

Which is why the posts about people having hangovers as examples of the MC "getting away with murder" are ludicrous

DeflatedGinDrinker · 03/08/2021 08:41

I used to finish early on wednesdays and my fav mum friend had the day off, other school mums were SAHP so were off and so once a week we would meet for lunch in a nice local restaurant and eat and drink wine then do school pick up together and take the kids to the park or just go home. I was the biggest light weight going and not once did a teacher ask us why we were all half cut once a week at pick up 🙈 I was the youngest out of a group of well off older mums.

Monday26July · 03/08/2021 08:43

@DeflatedGinDrinker

I used to finish early on wednesdays and my fav mum friend had the day off, other school mums were SAHP so were off and so once a week we would meet for lunch in a nice local restaurant and eat and drink wine then do school pick up together and take the kids to the park or just go home. I was the biggest light weight going and not once did a teacher ask us why we were all half cut once a week at pick up 🙈 I was the youngest out of a group of well off older mums.
A teacher never mentioned that you were drunk collecting your kid? Seriously?

Maybe you were good at hiding it.

Oblomov21 · 03/08/2021 08:52

I don't recognise this middle class picture you paint.
But you've also got poor boy mentality from growing up in poverty, which I too don't recognise.

Why do you live there if you don't like it?
None of the mums I've ever met couldn't do the school run the next day.

ReluctantEarlyRiser · 03/08/2021 08:52

I have only read the first few pages of this thread but here are my thoughts:

The worry is when the behaviour impacts on the child and puts them at risk of harm.

Parents drinking/taking recreational drugs - if there is another parent, friend, babysitter, nanny taking care of the children, this doesn't necessarily impact on them. This goes for any 'class' of family. If it's every day then that's different... Also Middle class parents can afford booze/drugs without it taking away from the kids. E.g. they can still buy them food and clothes.

Middle class parents tend to have the resources to pay for their children's care and cleaners etc to ensure the home is clean and safe.

Middle class parents tend to live in large, detached houses. If there is domestic abuse, arguments, screaming at the kids etc, neighbours are less likely to hear and report.

Oblomov21 · 03/08/2021 08:54

"whilst parents pop out for one and turns into a bender"

Eh? Where do you live?

HorseRaddish · 03/08/2021 08:56

I think this may be a reflection of your social circle. I live in a mc area and don't recognise any of the behaviour you're describing. I've never had noisy parties or got drunk whilst looking after kids Hmm

NoIDontWatchLoveIsland · 03/08/2021 08:56

I'm solidly middle class, country living person. I don't recognise that sort of behaviour at all.

Same. Don't know anyone that does as you describe. I do however know people who can afford to have plenty of childcare that they can party/sleep off the hangover while someone else does the school run..... but that's a perfectly safe choice (if not one I would make...) so not exactly one where social services need to be involved.

Comedycook · 03/08/2021 08:59

@DeflatedGinDrinker

I used to finish early on wednesdays and my fav mum friend had the day off, other school mums were SAHP so were off and so once a week we would meet for lunch in a nice local restaurant and eat and drink wine then do school pick up together and take the kids to the park or just go home. I was the biggest light weight going and not once did a teacher ask us why we were all half cut once a week at pick up 🙈 I was the youngest out of a group of well off older mums.
I used to get my income support early on Wednesday and my best mate, Shaz who was also on benefits got it too so we would meet at the fried chicken shop and get some cider from the off licence...then we'd pick up Jayden and Kai and hang out at the park..I would be pissed every week at pick up.

Doesnt sound so great does it.

A nice restaurant doesn't excuse your behaviour

Oblomov21 · 03/08/2021 09:00

"The house doesn't stay a mess after a party because the cleaner has been booked for an extra day. No food in the house - go out or order a takeaway whilst waiting for the online shop to arrive. "

I don't do the above. Because I don't have a cleaner. And I always have food in the house.

But I don't understand the problem with the above. What's the issue. How are the children not being well cared for here?

Monday26July · 03/08/2021 09:07

@Oblomov21

"The house doesn't stay a mess after a party because the cleaner has been booked for an extra day. No food in the house - go out or order a takeaway whilst waiting for the online shop to arrive. "

I don't do the above. Because I don't have a cleaner. And I always have food in the house.

But I don't understand the problem with the above. What's the issue. How are the children not being well cared for here?

Don’t think the poster is saying it’s a problem or that the kids in those scenarios aren’t being cared for. They’re highlighting that if you have enough money to buy in services such as cleaners or have food delivered then the impact on the child is lessened. If you have a massive party and you’re too hungover to cook and the house is a mess and you’re skint then your children are in a messy (possibly dangerous if glasses are left around) house going hungry. If you can pay a cleaner to sort the mess and order takeout then the children are in a well maintained environment with full bellies. Does that make sense?
WombatChocolate · 03/08/2021 09:09

I agree that there are lots of behaviours which many people might frown upon, but which won't trigger social service intervention. Again, lots of the public set a far higher bar in their moral judgement about parents and woukd want investigation or removal of children, far more easily than SS woukd deem necessary.

Again, it's a reason why I'm glad we have a system with prescribed triggers and markers that SS use and not the mob mentality which is very arbitrary about what should trigger intervention.

Again, SS aren't looking for perfect parenting. Lots of those judging others (often with imperfect info) seem to want perfection. Things which aren't perfect such as pretty irregular washing, poor diet, extremely limited parental input, parental physical or mental illness to a certain level, alcoholism to a certain level, learning disabilities to a certain level will all be things which means a child might not get as good an upbringing as they might, but isn't deemed so bad that there woukd be significant involvement of SS. Also, one-off incidents of mis-judgement might result in a conversation being had with SS, but far less than people might imagine or think should happen - and examples of that could be going out and leaving small children.

But of course there are issues which SS gets involved with and which sometimes will involve speedy and seemingly drastic action.

The public reaction to SS is the full range....from those who think SS should be involved in far more cases and who are horrified by large amounts of parental behaviour and think vast numbers fall short to the point many more children should be in care, to those which think every SS intervention is the work of busybodies who are targeting certain groups unnecessarily through prejudice.

I don't like the title of 'getting away with'. Surely, parenting for any group isn't about working out where the line of minimum parenting behaviour is and aiming low, but just high enough to to avoid detection and investigation. People don't look at their children and think about what is the least they can give them and what can they get away with and avoid detection of....and think to themselves 'I'm middle class so I can probably do that' or 'is better not do that, it will draw attention because of us being working class'. Instead, where people act poorly, it's generally through misjudgement and selfishness and putting themselves first above their children. It's a hard call sometimes, because being a good parent or a good enough parent doesn't mean 18 years of total personal sacrifice and never doing anything for yourself or never expecting children to come second sometimes. Some people do seem to see it like this (hence the idea that it can never be the case that both parents have a drink in case someone has to go to a and e) but I think in reality people live their lives and everyone makes judgements along a spectrum of choices. Some people veer fully towards the end of always doing what in their eyes might be best for the children (itself an arbitrary idea...although lots can't see that) and some towards what suits themesleves fully. Somewhere in that direction, there is a risk of child neglect or abuse and somewhere along that line SS might be involved.....but it's usually about ongoing neglect and not one-offs or about very serious one-off incidents.

How we all see the parenting of others and the role of SS or their actions is very much a construct of our own childhoods and involvement with authority as children and now and the circles we move in. No wonder people take different views and hold them quite adamantly and in ways that are very different.

Oblomov21 · 03/08/2021 09:17

Monday26 I completely agree. But that wasn't the point the OP was making.

If you have good disposable income you can hire ...... cleaners, people to run and host your kids parties, host yours. Clean up after you.

So? What's the problem with that. Loads and loads of sw london'ers can afford that. Rock on. Spend your solicitor or investment banker income in the way you choose.

Doesn't bother me.

Is this a jealousy thing?

Monday26July · 03/08/2021 09:26

@Oblomov21

Monday26 I completely agree. But that wasn't the point the OP was making.

If you have good disposable income you can hire ...... cleaners, people to run and host your kids parties, host yours. Clean up after you.

So? What's the problem with that. Loads and loads of sw london'ers can afford that. Rock on. Spend your solicitor or investment banker income in the way you choose.

Doesn't bother me.

Is this a jealousy thing?

It didn't read as jealousy to me, though I think the examples where people with more money can buy in help are poor ones when it comes to this topic as of course if the child is cared for it's not an issue. I couldn't care less either, if someone is making sure their kids are provided for in that scenario then that's all that matters. It's a simple fact of life that if you have money you can cushion yourself and your children better and therefore have more freedom to let loose while you outsource some of the caring responsibilities.
Savoury · 03/08/2021 09:32

I suggest that people read the posts from @DreamAboutSleep - the point is that when abuse is happening, teachers/police/SS are much less likely to believe it or take it further.

I've been reminded of an NCT mum asking a group of mums to meet in her (London) flat for some wine in the afternoon for no particular reason which was declined. That's a whole different ball game to having a bit too much prosecco at a party once in a while.

Bryonyshcmyony · 03/08/2021 09:32

@Oblomov21

"The house doesn't stay a mess after a party because the cleaner has been booked for an extra day. No food in the house - go out or order a takeaway whilst waiting for the online shop to arrive. "

I don't do the above. Because I don't have a cleaner. And I always have food in the house.

But I don't understand the problem with the above. What's the issue. How are the children not being well cared for here?

Exactly! Perhaps throwing money at the problem means that you can live a louche lifestyle while your kids are being looked after very well, fed, clothed, warm.
Savoury · 03/08/2021 09:34

Flowers to you @DreamAboutSleep. It must have been awful not to have been believed.

Oblomov21 · 03/08/2021 09:37

"mum asking a group of mums to meet in her (London) flat for some wine in the afternoon for no particular reason which was declined. "

Declined? Sounds like my kinda group Grin

Bryonyshcmyony · 03/08/2021 09:38

Mums meeting other mums for wine in the afternoon?! What harridans. BURN THEM