To think that 'middle class' parents get away with murder

[catfunk]

I grew up in a beautiful but modest part of the north with a fair amount of poverty and unemployment. Lots of families were under social services' care (?) police called out a lot, etc.

I now live in a fairly expensive city in the south, a fairly left wing liberal place where people party, lots of mums are 'trendy' types and generational wealth is quite common.

It struck me the other day that if the parents in my home town behaved like the parents in my current home there'd be real repercussions.
Noisy house parties whilst kids are in bed upstairs, parents getting drunk and staying out all night, recreational drug taking and being too hungover to do the school run. But it's ok because they're drinking champagne and expensive gin instead of tenants, and expensive cannabis tinctures instead of smoking resin?

None of the kids seem unhappy or affected and they do have lovely family times together of course but AIBU To think this is not fair ?

@Qwerty789

o for example friends kid's teacher caught her at the gate on a Monday eve recently to ask are you ok, child says you were sick all day yesterday so dad took them out for the day. Mum says 'oh yes just drank too much on Saturday night as usual' and they all laughed

Oh FFS, thats not abuse or neglect, in anyone! Mum had a hangover, so fucking what?

@Qwerty789Please can you tell me where I said it was abuse or neglect? my post was musing about how it's differently perceived amongst social groups.

@mustlovegin

a fairly left wing liberal place

OP, perhaps you are mixing with the 'wrong' crowd? Champagne socialist types-as you mention they are left wing liberals?

There are plenty of middle class, educated high earners who are level headed people and don't engage in the behaviours you've described

@mustlovegin these are just some of my friends, not all of them... I have a few different groups I socialise with :)

@ObviousNameChage really good insight and makes total sense, thank you

I'm going to a wedding and I'm going to have a fun night in the hotel room with the children asleep, I wouldn't contemplate leaving them on their own, even if I was checking on them.
Bu
So no other guests are leaving DCs upstairs and checking occasionally? I find that very hard to believe.
Or are other guests leaving DCs but rather than accept some parents do that just bring up the mcCanns again and again.
How can you know s babysitting service you've never used before is safe? Not sure I would risk it.

When I was small in the early 80s my very MC parents were given a couple of free weeks in Pontins by my dad's employers. I think Pontins was more highly regarded back then!! My mum told me that the evening entertainment was v kid friendly up to a point when they would have a break for the mums to put the kids to bed in a chalet some distance away and then come back to the bar for more drinks and to watch the crooners or have a dance. Pontins had staff members patrolling the grounds and if crying was heard from a particular chalet or a wandering child was found the parents were dragged away from the bar to deal with it briefly before going back and getting stuck in again.

No idea what other parents are doing, it's just not something I'd contemplate.

How can you know s babysitting service you've never used before is safe?

Well I’d be confident it’s safer than nothing.

I was and still am shocked that anyone thinks what the McCanns did was adequate parenting. I don’t know anyone who would have contemplated that.

Clearly cultural norms are very different among different people.

When dd was a baby we used to ask for a room close to the restaurant/bar and we used the baby monitor. We knew she was too young to come to harm by climbing out of the travel got and if she cried we were there as quick as in our own home. Still can’t see a problem with that! Don’t buy the fire/kidnap risk- it’s so unlikely that there’s more risk getting to the hotel in the first place. Little risks make life much happier for all.

And @GreatAuntEmily- you won’t be having a fun night in the hotel room though will you? You’ll be missing out on the fun…

@SuperCaliFragalistic

When I was small in the early 80s my very MC parents were given a couple of free weeks in Pontins by my dad's employers. I think Pontins was more highly regarded back then!! My mum told me that the evening entertainment was v kid friendly up to a point when they would have a break for the mums to put the kids to bed in a chalet some distance away and then come back to the bar for more drinks and to watch the crooners or have a dance. Pontins had staff members patrolling the grounds and if crying was heard from a particular chalet or a wandering child was found the parents were dragged away from the bar to deal with it briefly before going back and getting stuck in again.

I remember that at Butlins where I went with parents when I was about eleven. An older cousin with small children was with us and there was an announcement in the ballroom that a child was crying in X chalet. It was theirs and they went straight away but it seems dreadful now that kids were left alone like that. I mean, the staff walking around wouldn't be outside each chalet very long, they had a certain area to cover. A poor kid could have crying for ages in a strange place with no mum and dad. Yet that was the norm.

@catfunk

Yes the kids are well fed/ kept. Eg if parents hungover on a Sunday they'll just go for a big pub lunch instead of cooking or order nice food on deliveroo . Cleaner comes once a week . Kids in expensive clothing so never look neglected.

This is the thing I think. Neglect comes in various forms. Some are physical. A parent with money can still meet a child's physical needs as you've described, in most ways, even if they are rather self-absorbed. The child will have a babysitter while they go out, will still have someone to care for them if the parent is hungover, will still have food etc.

Social services are very stretched and concentrate on the most obvious cases they find which are often of physical neglect, unfed children, children left alone unsafely etc.

There is a whole other type of neglect of your parents just not caring about you, not giving you any love, making you feel worthless, or even subjecting you to physical abuse. This can happen in any family no matter their financial situation. Often, in poorer families, it's the same parents who neglect their children emotionally who do so financially. In financially comfortable families, children may be neglected in other ways and this is never picked up or reported. It's much harder for teachers or social workers etc to spot it and even harder for them to build a case to do anything as the bar for intervention is sooooo high. That is what needs to be changed.

Social services are very stretched and concentrate on the most obvious cases they find which are often of physical neglect, unfed children, children left alone unsafely etc.

^This definitely. Also, SS only know about cases that are reported to them, and I suspect that not many people do report MC parents who drink too much at weekends but appear to be coping when on the school run.

I grew up in a middle class area and this was definitely not my experience. The people I know who would be considered more middle class don't behave like this at all.

@LizzieW1969

*Social services are very stretched and concentrate on the most obvious cases they find which are often of physical neglect, unfed children, children left alone unsafely etc.*

^This definitely. Also, SS only know about cases that are reported to them, and I suspect that not many people do report MC parents who drink too much at weekends but appear to be coping when on the school run.

Yes. And, when parents who provide a nice house etc for their children and they have food and ok clothes but they are reported for concerns about mistreating their children by schools etc, nothing happens very often. My own case was one of these. I was told by the police that if I got beaten up again in my bedroom to give them a call, here's our card, but it was a "domestic issue" really and they were annoyed with their time being "wasted on this".

I was 14, and sexual abuse was also taking place (but they didn't even believe me about the black eye so how would I tell them that??).

@Saoirse82

I grew up in a middle class area and this was definitely not my experience. The people I know who would be considered more middle class don't behave like this at all.

That's exactly the problem. That people think this. Social workers couldn't be bothered. A nice family with a 5 bedroom house couldn't possibly do this, surely? It's all covered up and ignored and the children who are abused in "well off" families are ignored and left to deal with it on their own.

@Cherryana

I just want to know where all these party-loving middle agers are hanging out so I can go join them.

I want to know how they’re managing to hold down these amazing professional careers while that pissed they can’t manage to get their kids sorted.

@pollylocketpickedapocket my father had a professional job and went to Cambridge and was an alcoholic while he held down said career. What is your point exactly?

[quote MagentaGreen]@pollylocketpickedapocket my father had a professional job and went to Cambridge and was an alcoholic while he held down said career. What is your point exactly? [/quote]
Did he also do childcare and run the household too?

No, he did not. My mother did, then she married a rapist and then he ran the households, for all purposes other than housework.

Do you have a point to make?

I'd really love to know the motivation behind your comments. Please enlighten me.

I think child abuse behind the veneer of respectability is one thing - definitely goes on and is probably not detected as quickly.

I don't believe there are huge groups of professionals getting so drunk on a regular basis that they can't care for their kids properly. Of course, there are many people with addiction issues, but that's again another issue.

You just can't BE middle class and drunk all the time very often unless you work at being a serious alcoholic.

Mind you my definition of middle class probably wouldn't include someone who goes to a bar that has a ball pit in it shudder

I can think of two middle class families where one of the parents is a functioning alcoholic. If I thought harder I could probably think of more.
In both families it had caused problems.

Yep thought of another one. Weed though this time. All have well regarded jobs, one is a popular member of a local community.

Being a functioning alcoholic isn't class specific

And believe me wc functioning alcoholics get fuck all help either.

At least MC alcoholics can get sober more easily by chucking money at it which ultimately benefits their kids.

Of course it isn’t class specific. It’s perhaps better hidden within mc circles. And that’s part of the problem, the reality of children’s lives versus the perception of them. That gap can be massive and damaging.