To think that 'middle class' parents get away with murder

[catfunk]

I grew up in a beautiful but modest part of the north with a fair amount of poverty and unemployment. Lots of families were under social services' care (?) police called out a lot, etc.

I now live in a fairly expensive city in the south, a fairly left wing liberal place where people party, lots of mums are 'trendy' types and generational wealth is quite common.

It struck me the other day that if the parents in my home town behaved like the parents in my current home there'd be real repercussions.
Noisy house parties whilst kids are in bed upstairs, parents getting drunk and staying out all night, recreational drug taking and being too hungover to do the school run. But it's ok because they're drinking champagne and expensive gin instead of tenants, and expensive cannabis tinctures instead of smoking resin?

None of the kids seem unhappy or affected and they do have lovely family times together of course but AIBU To think this is not fair ?

[quote Walkaround]@Brainwave89 - so you think the other parents out drinking with drunk working class parents would be judging their friends do you, despite clearly being of the same mentality, or they would not be taking their kids to a pub or bar to go drinking together in the first place? That there is something especially accepting amongst middle class friendships that doesn’t exist amongst working class friendships? And were you shocked enough to report them to social services or not? Or are you just being one of those judgemental types who always finds something to be judgemental about, whether it’s people drinking when they shouldn’t, or middle class drunk people being more “entitled” than working class drunk people, but who never puts their money where their mouth is?[/quote]
I can only comment on what I have seen. I do think there is more entitlement within the middle classes than within working class communities. On the case mentioned, one of my colleagues did indeed accompany them to the hospital- insisting the mother came. She did mention that she had accompanied the mother to hospital as she had consumed a lot of alcohol. When we arrived the grandparents were already there. No further questions were asked.

What you describe isn't fair if it was true, but the difference is that the affluent delinquent parent is providing an overnight babysitter, getting their cleaner to drop the kids at school and the kids themselves are well fed on healthy food, being supported in their learning (perhaps tutors) etc because the parents buy in the services basically.

@gogohm

What you describe isn't fair if it was true, but the difference is that the affluent delinquent parent is providing an overnight babysitter, getting their cleaner to drop the kids at school and the kids themselves are well fed on healthy food, being supported in their learning (perhaps tutors) etc because the parents buy in the services basically.

That would apply to very few; they'd have to be EXTREMELY well off to do that, not just moderately, and social class wouldn't enter into it.

[quote GreatAuntEmily]@Walkaround
if you think less well off people have their children removed from them by social services so incredibly easily, how do you explain the death of Baby P?
That was in 2006 FGS - average of 62 children are thought to be killed in a year in the U.K from abuse or neglect. I spose because there weren't screaming headlines those don't count.
Unfortunately the screaming headlines over BBy P and the destroying of several Peoples careers by a public baying for blood has probably resulted in the rules being changed and many children now being removed into care for minor accidental injuries and mothers being jailed. That's what happens when people no longer reason sensibly but react emotionally. Unfortunately today's MPs bow to the loudest ranter.[/quote]
I don’t actually believe the Baby P case resulted in 15 years of knee jerk removal of children from families at the drop of a hat. Yes, of course cases like that have a destabilising effect and can result in poor, self-protective decisions by professionals for quite a while afterwards, but not for 15 years. Another extremely serious set of unfortunate circumstances and misjudgements normally come along well before that (eg Daniel Pelka, 2012) to demonstrate that children are not ripped away from their parents’ care at the drop of a hat, and as you pointed out, there are numerous deaths from abuse every single year - anyone want to do a class analysis on those?! There is no evidence that the McCanns would have had their children taken into care if they had been more working class.

a fairly left wing liberal place

OP, perhaps you are mixing with the 'wrong' crowd? Champagne socialist types-as you mention they are left wing liberals?

There are plenty of middle class, educated high earners who are level headed people and don't engage in the behaviours you've described

I know exactly what you mean @catfunk. I now live in a large, affluent SE town having grown up on council estates in London. I have had many experiences similar to yours.

For example, my dc go to a well regarded, popular state school. The type that we'll heeled, down from Londoners pay a house premium for to avoid school fees. We have a park nearby and Fridays it is heaving after school. Heaving with mc parents openly drinking quite large amounts of alcohol while their dc play. Beneath signs that state that drinking alcohol from open containers is prohibited and can result in a fine. But it is all OK as the alcohol is gin, prosecco or craft beer.

I have often wondered what would happen if a group of wc parents sat in the same place, on the same day, drinking alcohol. I suspect that a discreet call would be made and the local pcso would be making a visit.

Blimey. Lots of alcoholics about where some people live. The only people I have ever see drinking alcohol in playgrounds are under age teenagers.

I just want to know where all these party-loving middle agers are hanging out so I can go join them.

Went to a speech day at a private school, a lot of parents used taxis. The fizz flowed at the lunchtime picnic and afternoon tea 😂😂

@Cherryana

I just want to know where all these party-loving middle agers are hanging out so I can go join them.

Some moved in well below us great entertainment at the weekend. Their neighbours are going spare. One lady in a lovely red dress was dancing on a shed roof full glass in hand

I live in a very deprived area and work with kids. I do witness (or am toldabout) a lot of this behaviour and guess what? There's still not a lot being done even when it's topped up with neglect and even abuse. Overworked and overstretched services make for very high thresholds. We offer as much help and support as we can as a school, but we have no real power except for reporting to SS and police , but we don't always get the outcome we want or that the kids deserve.

From what you're saying about these families I'd say the main difference is that the kids aren't starving, they aren't dirty, they don't wear shoes with the sole falling off or full of holes, they don't get left alone to cater from themselves, they don't come to school reeking of weed and talking about drugs, they don't look after babies/younger siblings including feeding them in the night, they're not always late or missing school altogether,always tired (these are things that when reported still don't end in removal/serious interventions) then you have witnessing DV, police called all the time,drug raids, bruises,anger ,suicidal thoughts,significant changes in behaviour etc. and even then, if anything happens it's a very lengthy process with a lot of trauma added on top.

It's not that they get away with murder, it's that their kids are considered "safer" and sadly (like a PP and myself) are often overlooked and not prioritised.

Nailed it @ObviousNameChage

o for example friends kid's teacher caught her at the gate on a Monday eve recently to ask are you ok, child says you were sick all day yesterday so dad took them out for the day. Mum says 'oh yes just drank too much on Saturday night as usual' and they all laughed

Oh FFS, thats not abuse or neglect, in anyone! Mum had a hangover, so fucking what?

I have a MC professional friend who was a victim of DV (verbal harassment mostly) from her ex. If the police are called to a DV incident when children are present social services are notified. When social services contacted her after one incident they noted her profession and the area she lived and it was a 30 second call. I am sure they would have been much more interested if she weren't so obviously MC.

I know this isnt about MM but there is a certain arrogance about not using the baby sitting service which was available.

@sadperson16

I know this isnt about MM but there is a certain arrogance about not using the baby sitting service which was available.

Oh give it a rest.

@Qwerty789

o for example friends kid's teacher caught her at the gate on a Monday eve recently to ask are you ok, child says you were sick all day yesterday so dad took them out for the day. Mum says 'oh yes just drank too much on Saturday night as usual' and they all laughed

Oh FFS, thats not abuse or neglect, in anyone! Mum had a hangover, so fucking what?

I’m think it was the ‘as usual’ part that the op found concerning.

@Bryonyshcmyony Would you have left your children in a hotel room whilst you went out for dinner? Would you have used the babysitting service? I have every sympathy with her parents, it is a terrible tragedy, but there is no way I would leave my young children alone in a hotel room to go to dinner. I don't think people are acting like a mob, they are thinking about what they would do/have done in a similar situation. I'm going to a wedding and I'm going to have a fun night in the hotel room with the children asleep, I wouldn't contemplate leaving them on their own, even if I was checking on them.

Back to the original topic, I do think working class parents are judged more harshly.

[quote waiting557]@Bryonyshcmyony Would you have left your children in a hotel room whilst you went out for dinner? Would you have used the babysitting service? I have every sympathy with her parents, it is a terrible tragedy, but there is no way I would leave my young children alone in a hotel room to go to dinner. I don't think people are acting like a mob, they are thinking about what they would do/have done in a similar situation. I'm going to a wedding and I'm going to have a fun night in the hotel room with the children asleep, I wouldn't contemplate leaving them on their own, even if I was checking on them.

Back to the original topic, I do think working class parents are judged more harshly.[/quote]
Having stayed at OC, PDL for 8 consecutive years - ton's of clubs/creches/babysitting available.

I had a wedding and I hired a nanny to look after my 2nd child

[quote waiting557]@Bryonyshcmyony Would you have left your children in a hotel room whilst you went out for dinner? Would you have used the babysitting service? I have every sympathy with her parents, it is a terrible tragedy, but there is no way I would leave my young children alone in a hotel room to go to dinner. I don't think people are acting like a mob, they are thinking about what they would do/have done in a similar situation. I'm going to a wedding and I'm going to have a fun night in the hotel room with the children asleep, I wouldn't contemplate leaving them on their own, even if I was checking on them.

Back to the original topic, I do think working class parents are judged more harshly.[/quote]
Back when my oldest were very small, there was a lot of love for a particular hotel - always recommend highly fir parents with young children (on another board not this one). The reason it was recommend was because you were given a monitor so could put your children to bed and then go spend the night in the bar.

It was pre-MM mind you. Not sure what happened after, I never took much notic as It certainly wasn't a cheap place so I'd never have been able to stay even if I wanted.

@Bryonyshcmyony....give it a rest? How so,its my first comment and I stand by it.

@DingDongThongs

I had a wedding and I hired a nanny to look after my 2nd child

Very sensible.

give it a rest? How so,its my first comment and I stand by it.

I think the point is, we all agree that the McCanns were neglectful of their DC. But this thread isn’t meant to be about them.

Are you in St Albans Harpenden or Hertford 😂😂😂😂😂