To ask why people this Laurel the weightlifter will win?

[PollyPopa]

She's biologically male obviously but also hasn't got as good a personal best as some of the other (biologically female) competitors

Just wondering, that's all! I don't agree she should be in that competition either by the way but nothing to say she will win since her personal best isn't as great as some of the others

@Mulletsaremisunderstood well.. I thought surgery and hormones would be enough for me but this thread is making me reconsider.

And it would take away their advantage, having to compete against other transwomen rather than women. Unless it would be transwomen against transmen

Biology.

@VladmirsPoutine

Has the idea of a separate trans category ever been floated or not? That way everyone would be happy, it would be inclusive and there wouldn't be any to-ing and fro-ing about what constitutes a woman or fiddling about with hormone levels.

Of course, the idea has been brought up repeatedly. But this is primarily about male validation not gaining fairness in sport.

For a large proportion of these men it is not a case of severe body dysphoria (very rare) that has led to their public transition. It is a case of another condition which often leads to thread deletions whenever it is discussed: autogynephilia.

I would really love to see the athletes boycott this event. I know that's nigh on impossible when it's the Olympics and culmination of their training but acceptance is only going to make this more commonplace. If she were to get on the podium, I hope the others refuse to stand on it.

I'd just like to remind people that if you are angry about it do not watch the official coverage.
People tuning in to this will increase the view that it's good for getting people watching sports.
Tune out and watch later on YouTube. I guarantee it will appear there very quickly.

Anyway, this is probably too conspiracy theorist but I have wondered if Gavin chose the name Laurel because they had the Olympics in sights. (The Olympic Laurel being so significant).

This has all been carefully planned and orchestrated. It is part of a very long game with vast amounts of money behind it.
My personal opinion is that LH will get bronze and this will be the justification for saying that transwomen have no advantage.

I know this thread is about LH but for anyone in doubt about the differences in speed between the men and the women I suggest taking a look at some of the new mixed relay events where you can see real time top women against top men.

This photo alone speaks volumes.

@LostDonkey if he doesn't even identify as a woman then no he shouldn't be winning awards for women. I am surprised he accepted it.

I thoroughly agree. They will not do spectacularly well and the BBC will not show the event or pay scant regard to it. Consequently the whole thing sails nicely under the radar paving the way for Next Time.

I find it heartening that the NZ Team locks comments on Facebook posts about Hubbard. Shows that most people don't accept that this is OK.

@Vanishun

Somewhere out there, an actual woman who has probably trained relentlessly hard for years (without any benefits of testosterone etc) has lost out on her chance.

That's not okay. It's cheating and it's shit behaviour in the name of validating someone's feelings about themselves.

100% this

@DottyHarmer

I thoroughly agree. They will not do spectacularly well and the BBC will not show the event or pay scant regard to it. Consequently the whole thing sails nicely under the radar paving the way for Next Time.

Like Canada's Stephanie Barrett who competed in archery.

@FannyCann

I know this thread is about LH but for anyone in doubt about the differences in speed between the men and the women I suggest taking a look at some of the new mixed relay events where you can see real time top women against top men.

This photo alone speaks volumes.

I recommend that people that are still unsure watch the race as the GB male came from a huge distance back.

Thanks for the recommendation up thread about the book Trans. Just ordered it.

It makes me so angry that women are struggling to speak out about this. It's devastating for women's sports.

Does anyone know if LH is in Group A or B tomorrow? The groups are on at different times

I hope Laurel wins ... a win would show this for the farce it is

It's a fair point, but then there'd be the triumphalism of the trans lobby to witness - and it probably wouldn't be pleasant

Ignore my query. I misread the listing! The event starts just before noon I think

[quote clickychicky]@LostDonkey if he doesn't even identify as a woman then no he shouldn't be winning awards for women. I am surprised he accepted it.[/quote]
You're surprised because you hold yourself to a basic moral standard of fairness which seems to be lacking in the case of Bunce. After receiving the award he said in a statement: "I am truly honoured and humbled by this award and am proud of the progress we are making towards all forms of gender diversity & equality."

Bunce is non-binary, so I assume he accepted the award and gave the above quote on a day he was identifying as Pippa rather than Philip.

Good read on why it matters

fairplayforwomen.com/women-are-losing-their-olympic-dreams/?fbclid=IwAR3K8q1jbGLAfAs4DlyFFppGjnK5iZfXfZ8QpuHBsmPqWEfiU1QJnwWlOEw

@LostDonkey he would have made more of an impact in his case if he said he didn't identify as a woman or a man so was refusing it.

This world is very confusing.

@Tiddlywinkly

Thanks for the recommendation up thread about the book Trans. Just ordered it.

It makes me so angry that women are struggling to speak out about this. It's devastating for women's sports.

Does anyone know if LH is in Group A or B tomorrow? The groups are on at different times

Please don't watch it on the official coverage. If it attracts a larger audience that will be taken as the nation condoning it/ a good way to attract a larger audience.

Please watch it on YouTube after the event.

Good idea Fluffy. Will do.

While schoolboys can beat the women's world record speed then there is never a case for men to compete against women regardless of what hormones or bits of themselves they've had added or removed.

Maybe they should set up their own competitions and compete in their own trans olympics?

[quote clickychicky]@LostDonkey he would have made more of an impact in his case if he said he didn't identify as a woman or a man so was refusing it.

This world is very confusing.[/quote]
Come and have a look at the Feminism: Sex & gender discussions board. Although have a strong cup of tea/coffee first, once you start looking it's hair raising what is going on and the attempts to erode womens sex based rights. It does mean coming over to the naughty table though.

I'd suggest having a look over two of the classic introductory threads:
Break it down for me?
It will never happen - resource thread

@LostDonkey thank you, someone on another thread also recommended the naughty table. Nice to have some pointers where to start.