To ask why people this Laurel the weightlifter will win?

[PollyPopa]

She's biologically male obviously but also hasn't got as good a personal best as some of the other (biologically female) competitors

Just wondering, that's all! I don't agree she should be in that competition either by the way but nothing to say she will win since her personal best isn't as great as some of the others

Nobody cares if this person wins or not. The person shouldn’t be in the competition to start with so hopefully they will just fade into insignificance whilst the world cheers on the women that deserve to be there.

Somewhere out there, an actual woman who has probably trained relentlessly hard for years (without any benefits of testosterone etc) has lost out on her chance.

That's not okay. It's cheating and it's shit behaviour in the name of validating someone's feelings about themselves.

She might have been the best her country had to send? Just because her PB isn't as good as the other competitors doesn't mean she can't try. I mean, its unlikely she'll win anything then too.

@Vanishun

Somewhere out there, an actual woman who has probably trained relentlessly hard for years (without any benefits of testosterone etc) has lost out on her chance.

That's not okay. It's cheating and it's shit behaviour in the name of validating someone's feelings about themselves.

This.

Somewhere in NZ there’s a woman who will be watching the olympics on tv who should actually be in Tokyo but didn’t make the team because a biological man took her place. Think how you would feel if that was you.

After the olympics every single woman who competed in Tokyo and came below Laurel will be thinking that if a biological man hadn’t been allowed to compete then they’d have come 5th rather than 6th, 8th rather than 9th, etc. Really hope they don’t get a place on the podium because to take someone’s Olympic medal from them would be awful.

You have to wonder how meaningful winning under those circumstances would be anyway? “Hey, look, I won a gold medal in an event which focuses on physical strength. And I, a biological male, beat all these women to do so!”

And you WON? No shit, Sherlock. I mean it’s not as if Laurel will have achieved anything in that scenario, is it?

I have an English degree and have been teaching the subject for over twenty years. If I identify as an English student so I can sit the GCSE exam with my students and then be proud of myself for getting the best mark, what kind of self-delusional fool would I look?

This nonsense should be stopped.

Even if “she” wins it won’t mean anything. It’s pointless

It's not cheating though - regardless of your views - she has met all the rules/restrictions that the IOC have put in place
Your anger needs to be at the IOC not her!

I don't think LH will win, they are 20+ years older than the rest of the field - but still made it on the team which says something on its own about the competitiveness of men vs women's bodies. It's the spot they've taken away from a woman that infuriates me. Even if LH comes dead last that's still a position a woman should have taken, with the experience of being an female Olympian representing their country.

Listen to the chat about the mixed swimming relay and how the Americans messed up their tactics putting a woman instead of a man on the breast stroke leg. That's because the gap between times for men and women is biggest for breast stroke as a result of men's hip and shoulder physical shape after puberty. There are real biological differences between men and women and I am kind of happy the mixed relays in running, swimming, triathlon etc are showing those to such stark advantage to men.

Laurel has taken a place from a young, NZ woman of colour who should rightfully be at the Games. Laurel simply shouldn’t be there.

Laurel has taken a place from a young, NZ woman of colour who should rightfully be at the Games. Laurel simply shouldn’t be there.

This cannot be repeated often enough.

It's scandalous.

LH won't win because they are 20 years older than the competition and as a young fit competitor in the male category , they never reached elite level. Moreover they are also carrying a relatively recent injury which would have ended any female competitor's career.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/4310759-To-think-Laurel-Hubbard-should-not-be-competing-against-other-women?msgid=109543157#109543157

There’s this from yesterday, 850 messages and rising.

They won't win, same as Stephanie Barrett didn't win.

Feels like trajan entries of older mediocre men, to pave the way for a future with many, many, many more male sex competitors in women's sport.

Sad really.

@vinoandbrie

Laurel has taken a place from a young, NZ woman of colour who should rightfully be at the Games. Laurel simply shouldn’t be there.

How bloody entitled must Laurel feel to do this? Nicely cushioned by Daddy's millions of course.

The IOC are absolutely allowing cheating. We can see other countries using this handy loophole, too.

It's not cheating though - regardless of your views - she has met all the rules/restrictions that the IOC have put in place. Your anger needs to be at the IOC not her

The IOC - and other organisations that cater to the Trans agenda -are clearly bonkers. However, I'm still angry at LH because he/she/they acted out of a sense of entitlement and was willing to take advantage of their greater strength, which is due not to committed training over many years but innate superior physical strength.

Wonder how the IOC came to decide the rules on this ?

What could possibly influence them to change the rules to allow a multi millionaire white man to compete in women’s sport categories.

For me I care less about the unfairness of the competition (in this instance anyway), the bigger issue is that an actual woman could be competing and he's stolen her rightful place

It doesn't matter if she wins or not. She's competing, which means a) a woman lost the slot and b) a 43 year old middling male athlete who was recently badly injured and was never anywhere near international standard as a man is world class when compared to top female athletes 20 years younger. Even after lowering their testosterone to the IOC requirements, which remain several times higher than in natal women, including elite athletes. That requirement was never introduced because it was fair - it isn't. It was brought in because it is possible.

The fact Hubbard is there at all demonstrates the injustice. She is a cheat and the IOC is a bunch of craven misogynists. Women are not men with artificially lowered testosterone.

@mamaoffourdc

It's not cheating though - regardless of your views - she has met all the rules/restrictions that the IOC have put in place Your anger needs to be at the IOC not her!

No my anger is aimed at both. He knows exactly what he’s doing. I’m not letting some rich, privileged white male off the hook just because some other rich, privileged males said it was ok.

I hope Laurel wins.

A win would show this for the farce it is.
Whereas not winning could be used as an argument to allow the continued inclusion of male born people into female sports events.

How many 43 yr old other weightlifters have competed at the Olympics?

@mamaoffourdc

It's not cheating though - regardless of your views - she has met all the rules/restrictions that the IOC have put in place Your anger needs to be at the IOC not her!

If it’s all the same with you, I have more than enough anger to go around both.

A stale, pale male (bodied person) gets priority over a women (of colour, to make it worse).

The more thing ‘progress’, the more they big, fat stay the same as ever. So, so tedious.

I strongly disagree with her being there but know nothing about weightlifting.

However, I don't think it's a done deal LH will win as she's going up against the best when she's much older and was a pretty mediocre weight lifter all her life when identifying as a man. I would assume this means her aptitude and technique are not going to be as good as the competitors who have spent years getting to the top of their game.

As I say I know nothing about the sport so don't know how much impact this may have, but I saw a chart on a MN thread showing that Olympic weight lifters over, I think, 39 are very rare. Therefore the fact that she has a not-stellar track record in what I see as her rightful category, and is much older than the usual age group speaks volumes about the natural advantage she has had in getting in, to the point of it being very unfair.

There was an interesting piece in the fail today about a trans woman professional golfer who plays on the mens circuit (in a nice skirt and vest combo and full makeup) who doesn't play against women because they accept they have a physical advantage.

Lauren should not be competing in women's events. Lauren stole a place from a woman.

Of course it’s not a done deal ‘she’ will win.

‘She’ probably won’t. ‘She’s’ seriously over the hill in WL terms.

If ‘she’ doesn’t win, it will just give her supporters more ammunition.

It’s lose-lose all around for women.