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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

To ask why people this Laurel the weightlifter will win?

410 replies

PollyPopa · 31/07/2021 19:30

She's biologically male obviously but also hasn't got as good a personal best as some of the other (biologically female) competitors

Just wondering, that's all! I don't agree she should be in that competition either by the way but nothing to say she will win since her personal best isn't as great as some of the others

OP posts:

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VladmirsPoutine · 01/08/2021 10:13

Not saying the criteria are correct but I think the anger should be directed at the people who have decided the criteria

So you think the IOC just woke up one morning, gathered to have a meeting and decided amongst themselves with no external influence what the rules should be

Livelovebehappy · 01/08/2021 10:14

She shouldn’t be there. Any self satisfaction she feels if she wins will be short lived, as I guess most Olympians want to celebrate that win with the people of their country, many of whom will be totally against her being there in the first place. It’s cheating - plain and simple.

clickychicky · 01/08/2021 10:15

@Chickenyhead

So if the rules allowed you to compete against 10yo why wouldn't you? Rules allow it.

I do not genuinely believe I am a 10 year old. And the rules do not allow it.

RadandMad · 01/08/2021 10:15

@clickychicky

They've let her compete so it's not her fault.

Who held a gun to LH's head and forced them to compete?

HereticFanjo · 01/08/2021 10:15

@Chickenyhead

So if the rules allowed you to compete against 10yo why wouldn't you? Rules allow it.

Because you'd have to be a shameless, narcissistic prick to do it. Perhaps that's as good a description of 'Laurel' as any.

But yes, the IOC are to blame here, along with people falling for lobbying by extreme activists..

I say again: read Trans by Helen Joyce.

Chickenyhead · 01/08/2021 10:15

Naunet · 01/08/2021 10:16

@clickychicky

They've let her compete so it's not her fault.

Of course it bloody is!

youaresunshine · 01/08/2021 10:17

Why the hell is Hubbard going along with it? The controversy alone would be enough to make me rethink.

FrippEnos · 01/08/2021 10:18

@Quartz2208

The woman who lost out was given a place in the end

To the detriment of another woman that would have had that place.

clickychicky · 01/08/2021 10:18

@VladmirsPoutine

Not saying the criteria are correct but I think the anger should be directed at the people who have decided the criteria

So you think the IOC just woke up one morning, gathered to have a meeting and decided amongst themselves with no external influence what the rules should be

No. But if it's their competition, they decide the rules. They might be unfair rules but it's their rules. If they were bothered about being fair they would have chosen different rules. They've also allowed fencer charged with sexual misconduct to compete, a lot of people don't think that's right but he hasn't been disqualified so I don't think they care much.

CuriousaboutSamphire · 01/08/2021 10:19

Validation

Narcissism

Who knows? It's wrong whatever the reasoning.

clickychicky · 01/08/2021 10:19

@HereticFanjo ok I will thank you. Willing to have my eyes opened if I'm missing something.

Antwerpen · 01/08/2021 10:19

@Vanishun

Somewhere out there, an actual woman who has probably trained relentlessly hard for years (without any benefits of testosterone etc) has lost out on her chance.

That's not okay. It's cheating and it's shit behaviour in the name of validating someone's feelings about themselves.

This

anon12345678901 · 01/08/2021 10:19

@vinoandbrie

Laurel has taken a place from a young, NZ woman of colour who should rightfully be at the Games. Laurel simply shouldn’t be there.

This. Hubbard has no right to be there. Hubbard is still a male biologically. One who was not good enough to qualify in the male tournaments.

cantrememberagain · 01/08/2021 10:20

I love the anger on this thread I've been livid and didn't realise I wasn't alone.

I'd like to add my take, I'd add in the rules that any competitive male needs to be surgically female as well as the hormone tweaks. Then we can see how serious they are.

RadandMad · 01/08/2021 10:21

@youaresunshine

Why the hell is Hubbard going along with it? The controversy alone would be enough to make me rethink.

Sees themselves as spearheading trans rights, don't they, plus a whole load of attention to boot.

sashagabadon · 01/08/2021 10:21

Agree with those that say it’s irrelevant if she wins or not. She shouldn’t be allowed to compete in the first place and has taken a place from a NZ competitor and she could take a medal spot from someone else.
It’s indefensible imo and utterly unfair. The inclusiveness argument does not stack up. First sport is always exclusive ( hence why women have their own competitions) and b. Inclusive to who exactly? It’s not inclusive to females to allow males to compete in their competitions.
I listened to the Ross Tucker science of sport podcast on this issue and it was enlightening to me. Sex matters more than any other factor. More than height, weight etc.
The mixed sex triathlon teams and swimming relays also brought this fact home. The elite men powered past the elite women.
Women deserve their own category as women and women’s sport matter.

BethnalGreenBambinos · 01/08/2021 10:22

Quartz2208 - but if Nini Manumua hadn't been displaced by Hubbard, that "wild card" would have gone to another woman! A woman has lost out however far down the rankings you care to look.

RadandMad · 01/08/2021 10:22

@cantrememberagain

I love the anger on this thread I've been livid and didn't realise I wasn't alone.

I'd like to add my take, I'd add in the rules that any competitive male needs to be surgically female as well as the hormone tweaks. Then we can see how serious they are.

You are not alone. Many women are very very angry about what is happening to our words, our spaces and our rights. It's just that so many are afraid to speak out because the consequences are real.

clickychicky · 01/08/2021 10:24

@cantrememberagain

I love the anger on this thread I've been livid and didn't realise I wasn't alone.

I'd like to add my take, I'd add in the rules that any competitive male needs to be surgically female as well as the hormone tweaks. Then we can see how serious they are.

Oh.. I think I may have wrongly assumed they did already. Like they had to irreversibly have made the switch.

MiladyBerserko · 01/08/2021 10:24

I think the 'shameless narcissistic prick' comment sums it up well enough.

RadandMad · 01/08/2021 10:25

Bring it on though. Laurel is doing a lot of heavy lifting for women who disagree with this insanity.

Vanishun · 01/08/2021 10:25

@youaresunshine

Why the hell is Hubbard going along with it? The controversy alone would be enough to make me rethink.

If I had to guess, I'd say desperate narcissistic self-validation, with a deep-buried loathing of women behind it.

Anyone who can reduce women to nothing more than a bundle of stereotypes and costumes shows their misogyny.

bogoffmda · 01/08/2021 10:27

The anger is not at the IOC but at the individual who has no moral compass and is the one who is pushing the issue.

When most sports rules were originally written this was not a concept that existed.

Amazingly there are no biological women competing in the mens events.

ZeusandClio · 01/08/2021 10:28

@VladmirsPoutine

Did anyone else watch the mixed relay swimming? I think all bar the UK(?) started with their male swimmers and gained a HUGE advantage from the jump, literally. I can't understand how anyone can't see this? I think it's fair to say even Serena Williams quite possibly the best tennis player of all time wouldn't manage to go toe to toe with a 20-something male tennis player.

The 203rd ranked male player beat Serena and Venus back to back 6-1, 6-0. Serena herself said she wouldn't be abke to take a single point from Andy Murray.

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