To think Laurel Hubbard should not be competing against other women

[Belle82]

I know I am going to get ripped apart for this.

I have no problem with the transgender community, that is your life/body and I am not one to judge anyone else, do what makes you happy.

There is something fundamentally wrong about a person who is biologically a man competing against a woman in sport as significant as weightlifting.
I am not taking anything away from women weightlifters, however when competing in that sport, a person who was born a man will always have an unfair advantage over a woman.

I am all for equal rights but it seems political correctness has now put us in a position that we will only consider the equal rights of those in the transgender community. What happens to the equal rights of all the other women who have worked extremely hard to get to the olympics who should be competing against biological women.

There needs to be clearer cut criteria on entrance requirements to every sport, to give every person the equal rights they deserve.

My heart goes out to all the other women competing who I’m sure must be somewhat disheartened about their chances of success now they are competing against a biological man.

www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/sport/2021/jul/29/ioc-praises-weightlifter-laurel-hubbard-ahead-of-transgender-athletes-olympic-debut

@theemperorhasnoclothes

I think it would need a different type of boycott, but women support sport in all kinds of less visible ways: PE teaching, coaching, promoting... hell how long would non-professional clubs survive if women stopped taking their kids to training?

Or if women stopped volunteering - my observation is that a lot of children's sports clubs rely very heavily on mainly women volunteers.

I think also it might be possible as women who volunteer and pay for children's sports lessons to push sports clubs in a different direction - focused on child wellbeing and not so focused on competitive sports. If there's no level playing field for girls I just don't see the point of the competitive focus any more. There are a lot of official bodies that have drunk the cool aid that club members pay subs to - that could all stop (and save a bit of cash) for a start. We do have economic power as the main group paying for sport at a children's grassroots level.

I think it would be fascinating and really instructive if everyone on this thread thought about the things they do that supports sport, e.g. Season ticket Subscription to a sports channel Buying a child a club shirt. Teaching or coaching Volunteering Paid work in the leisure sector (it's a big industry). Taking your child (and often someone else's child too) to training. Showing up at weekends and freezing your arse off to cheer on your child.

That's just off the top of my head. Like I've said, I disagree that we have no power.

@YetAnotherSpartacus

Prompted by @YetAnotherSpartacus’s message I looked up sex verification in sport on Wikipedia; it is indeed funny to think that not that long ago women were being sex-tested to weed out potential cheating men posing as women

I read an article about this once where an older woman (at the time) athlete explained how the older ones would take the younger ones aside and explain what was about to happen to them to prepare them. If you think about some of the gymnasts they were very young. Some of the women reported being traumatised by the way they were treated.

Which is repulsive.

However when you look at what that situation and this have in common: female people policed, harassed and violated by the male controllers of the situation to ensure the male people's peace of mind that the females are behaving. Female people pushed aside and silenced by the male controllers of the situation, who are making it clear that ambition and fair competition is for male people and not for mere females, to ensure the male people's peace of mind that male born athletes can compete as they would personally prefer to.

Are women welcome in sport or not?

I am with Floisme on this. The time is coming where women are going to have to make it very clear that we are 51% of society. In terms of provision of unseen labour and care we contribute a disproportionate share, and we have the power to cause a lot of problems should we decide the good will is gone.

I've said this before, but I also think the time is coming where female people can fairly be asking in the UK: with public spaces, facilities, resources and opportunities now made mixed sex for the greater freedom and happiness of male people, which disadvantages, penalises and actively excludes many women (and no one apparently cares) why are female people being asked for equal taxes to those more privileged and cared for males? No taxation without representation.

I'd just like to remind people that if you are angry about it do not watch the official coverage.
People tuning in to this will increase the view that it's good for getting people watching sports.
Tune out and watch later on YouTube. I guarantee it will appear there very quickly.

If anyone wants a graphic illustration of why women have a separate category to men I recommend looking at some of the new mixed relays events where you can see the difference in real-time although just a look at this picture sums it up neatly.

That is true, I can’t imagine female competitors bandying together and lobbying for invasive sex verification tests. I would be surprised if there wasn’t a man/men behind such a setup.

That’s sort of where we are headed now though, women policing each other as competitors in case a man tries to compete in womens’ events.

I'm here from another thread. This is a real eyeopener for me. Thank you.

@FluffyBattleKitten

I'd just like to remind people that if you are angry about it do not watch the official coverage. People tuning in to this will increase the view that it's good for getting people watching sports. Tune out and watch later on YouTube. I guarantee it will appear there very quickly.

Good point.

I think there are all kinds of things we could do if we put our minds to it.

clickychicky - why not head over to FWR (aka the 'Naughty Corner') and see what else is eye-opening? This includes women being raped and/or harassed in prisons, girls being forced to accept individuals with penises in their change rooms and women losing jobs because they speak the truth.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights

@YetAnotherSpartacus I will, thank you.

To follow on from @YetAnotherSpartacus, anyone wanting to know more about this issue and the discussions on the 'naughty corner' (formerly FWR), this thread is the best place to start - www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3145470-Break-it-down-for-me

YANBU. Not just in sports like weightlifting though, males should not be competing in ANY female sports or any other female category of ANYTHING.

@Waitwhat23 thank you, I was about to post there asking where is a good place to start as looks like there's lots of ground to cover there!

@clickychicky no problem. That whole thread is invaluable but Datum's posts on page 2 about the slow realisation about what is going on in society as a whole are absolutely bang on.

Argh! Datun not Datum!

Poll SS for those that can't see (& those who want to claim we're a tiny minority on the wrong side of history )

www.bbc.co.uk/sport/olympics/57989022

Here’s the BBC’s take on this. A gushing, emotional article full of praise for the athlete, almost whitewashing the fears and concerns of the vast majority of female population. Honestly l, when you see the national broadcaster being so blatantly biased, the argument about scrapping the license fee starts to appeal.

@sst1234 just reading that article thanks. It seems to say LH only has to keep testosterone below 10 nanomoles for a year but women's testosterone levels range between 0.7 and 2.8.

So that doesn't seem right to me, That's excluding anything else I haven't read the whole article.

I don't think their criteria are strong enough.

'She's' not competing against other women as she isn't one.
They are competing against women.
Wrong.

@sst1234

www.bbc.co.uk/sport/olympics/57989022

Here’s the BBC’s take on this. A gushing, emotional article full of praise for the athlete, almost whitewashing the fears and concerns of the vast majority of female population. Honestly l, when you see the national broadcaster being so blatantly biased, the argument about scrapping the license fee starts to appeal.

From one of the scientists quoted in the article:

"If you really wanted to know the answer to these questions you'd take some perfectly ordinary 20-something trans folk and measure their athletic potential before and after standard treatment."

Which strikes me as the wrong question: your control group is not the trans person pre-treatment, it is the population against which they will be competing.

Here’s the BBC’s take on this. A gushing, emotional article full of praise for the athlete, almost whitewashing the fears and concerns of the vast majority of female population. Honestly l, when you see the national broadcaster being so blatantly biased, the argument about scrapping the license fee starts to appeal.

^Agreed. I’ve been very disheartened by the bias shown by the BBC on this issue.

YANBU. It’s a disgrace.

It breaks my heart. It really does. I think my beloved country is well wrong on this one.

You are not being unreasonable. It is a disgrace to the Olympic ideal of fairness.

[quote clickychicky]@Waitwhat23 thank you, I was about to post there asking where is a good place to start as looks like there's lots of ground to cover there![/quote]
I was in your position a couple of months ago. Funnily enough, it was a thread that managed to stay on AIBU that made me go “hang on a moment ...”.

I’ve now been reading (and occasionally posting) over in the former FWR section. It’s definitely eye-opening starting to see how widely the impact is felt and could be felt.