Is racism against the English acceptable?

[BabyBearRus]

We are currently on holiday in Wales and have just heard an altercation outside our holiday accommodation blasting the "bastard English who come to stay here". I'm shocked. I am half Welsh and half Irish, and spent much time in both countries. But also spent half my life in England. There has always been a jovial criticism of the English, e.g. during rugby internationals etc, but in recent years the tone has become more racist. I also find this resentful attitude towards the English amongst my Irish and Scottish friends. The English seem to be an acceptable people to hate. Surely this should be classed as racism? And, I'm saying this from a predominantly Welsh and Irish heritage. Yes, I am aware of the history of these isles, but when are we going to get over this? Truly baffled.

Good to see posters being more open.

'Because at last the English are starting to show some independence. We chose not to be part of a homologous structure in Europe and instead forge ahead shedding ourselves of the bureaucratic encumbrances Europe entails. Sadly not all our nations agreed.
The French don't like us cos we saved their sorry asses in two world wars and they've never got over it!'

We are showing independence finally!!!!

An interesting comment in the context of Wales, and also Scotland, NI and Ireland have come up..!

Oh yeah and the French! The French eh.

@cuparfull

I assume that will also be your attitude when the commonwealth countries start to want to leave? when the UK breaks up?

After all they just want to be completely independent

[quote HappyTimeTunnelDinosaur]@nicegerbil Some in England are racist and xenophobic, many are not. The same may be said for any country and any person.

Many countries have greater problems with violent football fans, which is ridiculous and in my opinion is just football being used as an excuse to act like a prat and the country they are from is irrelevant. I don't condone behaviour like that whatever the reason given and all should be suitably dealt with and made to face consequences.

I've lived in 5 different countries, in all of them I have seen and heard different stereotypes about different countries, some serious and others less so. However, most people I have come across has been generally kind and able to get along, which is the most important thing.[/quote]
This is about one overheard argument and one sign.

That's it.

Act like a prat? You didn't see the footage.

They were kicking the crap out of people. One guy they got on the ground and 3 men were kicking him. One in the head.

That's not acting like s prat.

@Mzombie I think there are other countries that have a worse problem, e.g. Poland. Either way, my point remains that this is not due to the country they are born in or is on their passport etc, but down to them being particular people who want to fight and be violent.

Far from a sign, the worst abuse I experienced was in France where I was spat on on the metro by a group of men assuming I was English. I was 22 and was terrified at the time that it would escalate , fortunately it didn't but it was bad enough anyway.

And yes I do believe that violent and racist behaviour makes someone a prat. Sorry if my language isn't strong enough for you @nicegerbil

[quote HappyTimeTunnelDinosaur]@Mzombie I think there are other countries that have a worse problem, e.g. Poland. Either way, my point remains that this is not due to the country they are born in or is on their passport etc, but down to them being particular people who want to fight and be violent.

Far from a sign, the worst abuse I experienced was in France where I was spat on on the metro by a group of men assuming I was English. I was 22 and was terrified at the time that it would escalate , fortunately it didn't but it was bad enough anyway.[/quote]
I'm assuming from this comment you've never been to Poland?

It's not a competition.

Oh, it's fine for us to be a bit racisr or xenophobic because some people are worse.

Aim a bit higher and try not to accept any racist/ xenophobic shit at all.

I'm Irish (NI).

We have amazing coasts and lots of lovely holiday parks and I can honestly tell you (from my experience) any sort of anti-English abuse would be very loudly shut down and dealt with.

I'm in my 30's and that sort of attitude is embarrassing. We have young families and want to move on. It's only the smicker scumbags who would get drunk and start trouble.

Pretty sure I said none of it was acceptable.

This is about one overheard argument and one sign.

That's it.
No, it's now also about someone so wrapped up their own Englishness, and so sure that everyone offering an opinion must be English, that she continually characterizes someone who has repeatedly made it clear that they are Welsh, as being English.

No doubt I'll be getting called an Uncle Tom-Jones in a second...

[quote Unsure1983]@SorryWoman pretty sure that's because nearly everyone is 100% against the Holocaust, but start talking about the empire and you have all sorts of comments like, "the countries were better off as a result of being colonised" etcetera. Many British are proud of the empire to this day. Resentment exists for a reason.[/quote]
Really?

The Alternative for Germany is a far-right German political party known for its xenophobia, anti-Islam beliefs, and pride in German identity. After Sunday’s German elections, it is also now the country’s third-largest party.

www.vox.com/platform/amp/world/2017/9/26/16360916/afd-german-far-right-racism-xenophobia

@HappyTimeTunnelDinosaur

And yes I do believe that violent and racist behaviour makes someone a prat. Sorry if my language isn't strong enough for you *@nicegerbil*

A prat.

Ok. The point was that many are horrified by s sign and an overheard argument.

We are way worse but that seems... Irrelevant.

Prat ..

This bloke violently assaulted a man because of his nationality and kicked him in the head multiple times.

Oh what a prat.

Ok.

Ok. The point was that many are horrified by s sign and an overheard argument.
Other than you, precisely two posters have reacted to the sign anecdote. Both of us are Welsh and have talked about the prevalence of Anti-Welsh prejudice. We do not need you to have a meltdown on our behalf, nor chastise us for being 'horrified'.

@GlendaSugarbeanIsJudgingYou

I'm Irish (NI).

We have amazing coasts and lots of lovely holiday parks and I can honestly tell you (from my experience) any sort of anti-English abuse would be very loudly shut down and dealt with.

I'm in my 30's and that sort of attitude is embarrassing. We have young families and want to move on. It's only the smicker scumbags who would get drunk and start trouble.

The way it was shut down by the RUC / army back in the day?

Only drunk troublemakers???!!!
Eh?

That's your take on the recent violence in Belfast?

What about anti Irish abuse?

Shut down and dealt with?

The Orangemen marches cool with you?

I stand by my use of the word prat and, actually, that seems to annoy you more than anything else!

@Antipastoselection bloody he'll. You know since charming people. I'm also Welsh, lived here all my life, and rugby aside I've never come across a prevalent anti English vibe.

Anti people coming in and buying up second homes meaning people can't afford to live in their own communities, yes. These people are mostly English, but the sentiment would be the same if they were Scottish or Irish.

Other than this I think it's a good thing you're moving, I wouldn't want to be around people like this either.

'@SorryWoman pretty sure that's because nearly everyone is 100% against the Holocaust, but start talking about the empire and you have all sorts of comments like, "the countries were better off as a result of being colonised" etcetera. Many British are proud of the empire to this day. Resentment exists for a reason.'

www.reuters.com/world/uk-ex-police-officer-jailed-belonging-neo-nazi-group-2021-04-30/

www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2020/jun/09/four-uk-neo-nazis-jailed-for-membership-of-national-action

www.bbc.com/news/uk-57406673

Etc etc

Jesus Chris Gerbil what are you on about?

I grew up in one of the most nationalist areas in Belfast. Telling wankers who make everyone else's life a misery to shut up is not the same thing as supporting marches.

And yes the only people I have ever seen abuse English people in NI for being English have been drunken scumbags.

Sorry, far too exhausted to read the whole thread, even most of OP's. It feels like racism, but it isn't, but it IS a Hate Crime, and if as a nation we weren't so "oh no, I don't want to bother the police (or whoever any given situation would make appropriate)".

Anyone who wants to troll me over this, please don't waste your time, I won't change my mind on this, however much you insult me or my views - my views are just as relevant as yours. By the way, I do believe that far too many kidnapped/hijacked/stolen/ displaced people of colour have been murdered/raped/ tortured/Treated abhorrently in this World, and tragically many of those were by British and/or white hands. The real tragedy is (as at some stage we do all need to put history behind us, or we will forever be doing those same things county against county, state against state, areas against areas, nation against nation, country against country, continent against continent, and maybe in the future, planet against planet etc), that some of us are still treating people of colour this way. The actions of too many US police individuals are an awful example of this.

But as in another not quite so serious thread, many of us women think that the pain of childbirth - and I have been lucky enough to have had 3 successful natural childbirths (with the help of the wonderful Entonox) - is the worst pain ever, and that no man should ever dare to complain of pain, after what we have to go through, with apparently NO SYMPATHY whatsoever from anyone, except for other mothers!
(But shh, in the small print Pancreatitis is actually supposed to be worse).
So I don't think it is actually helpful to say or believe that every single person of colour has suffered at all times through history, more than any individual white person. Many individual white/Mediterranian white people, have actually suffered severely at the hands of other white people, and by the hands of - whisper it - people of colour too.
IMO some of the worst people to suffer these days, are a significant portion of Muslim women by the hands (and other body parts) of too many Muslim men. So please don't judge one atrocity against another. All hatred against others is abhorrent.

@GlendaSugarbeanIsJudgingYou

Jesus Chris Gerbil what are you on about?

I grew up in one of the most nationalist areas in Belfast. Telling wankers who make everyone else's life a misery to shut up is not the same thing as supporting marches.

And yes the only people I have ever seen abuse English people in NI for being English have been drunken scumbags.

I'm on about the recent resurgence in violence.

90 police officers have been injured so far according to my quick Google search.

Reports saying not seen anything like this since the troubles.

I must be missing something. Unionist / nationalist. One side wants free of the English. How is that not anti English sentiment.

If the situation is not due to one group having anti English sentiment then what were the bombs I remember all about?

I grew up on the Welsh border (English) and I think that there's always been an undercurrent of xenophobia on both sides, but recently I think it's got worse and social media is to blame.

I have an Aunt who is English but lived in Wales almost all her adult life. She's married to a Welsh man. She has become radicalised by social media in recent years and seems to have adopted Welsh as her nationality, to the point that she is regularly posting about English people taking over Wales. I have to resist the urge to point out that she is one

The squeaky wheels get the oil. Reports said the same thing about Flag-Gate.

It's just a bunch of nonsense trying to set us back and you are buying into it. Next year it will be something else.

I have an Aunt who is English but lived in Wales almost all her adult life. She's married to a Welsh man. She has become radicalised by social media in recent years and seems to have adopted Welsh as her nationality, to the point that she is regularly posting about English people taking over Wales. I have to resist the urge to point out that she is one.
So what? I know a good few English people who have moved to Wales, spent most of their lives there and some are even fluent in Welsh. If they want to call themselves Welsh and make pro-Welsh heritage posts, good on them. A world away from the holiday-home buyers and those who campaign for the language to be abolished (or turn a blind eye to the issue).

Sorry I don't understand.

Can you expand on that? I literally have no idea about any of it!