Is racism against the English acceptable?

[BabyBearRus]

We are currently on holiday in Wales and have just heard an altercation outside our holiday accommodation blasting the "bastard English who come to stay here". I'm shocked. I am half Welsh and half Irish, and spent much time in both countries. But also spent half my life in England. There has always been a jovial criticism of the English, e.g. during rugby internationals etc, but in recent years the tone has become more racist. I also find this resentful attitude towards the English amongst my Irish and Scottish friends. The English seem to be an acceptable people to hate. Surely this should be classed as racism? And, I'm saying this from a predominantly Welsh and Irish heritage. Yes, I am aware of the history of these isles, but when are we going to get over this? Truly baffled.

[NiceGerbil]

There's no excusing that!

Lol.

Anyone want to comment on our boys kicking the shit out of Italy fans?

On a scale of 1 to shocking no excuse. How do they compare?!

[Mzombie]

@fairynick

Racist towards English people 😂😂😂 fucking hell, not really comparable to ACTUAL racism where people of colour you know .. die because of the colour of their skin???

It's called xenophobia. And yes, it's equally disgusting no matter who it is directed at.

[NiceGerbil]

'Also, many people have forgotten to be kind and get swept away focussing on negative feelings towards one group or another. I think generally it leads to trouble and hate'

Omg that's so deep.

Made me think of Northern Ireland. Gosh why aren't they being kind?

Maybe they need more platitudes in their lives

[Mzombie]

@solittletime

Xenophobia is what it is. Plenty of white Europeans subjected to it daily in the Uk. Different from racism I’d say, but similarly steeped in ignorance and fear

It's the same as racism, just not about your skin colour. Funny how the exact same people engage in both. The fact that some of their victims have the same skin colour as them doesn't make it any less of a hate crime.

[DewDew83]

@NiceGerbil
I'm Welsh so the English aren't 'my boys'.

I think I've made my views on the OP and England's ongoing colonisation of Wales quite clear, but I don't think it is excusable (or lawful) to erect 'No Foreigners' type signage. Just because worse things happen doesn't make that okay.

[NiceGerbil]

English people seeing a sign in Wales that makes them feel angry and sad.

Is totes the same as racist attacks and murders.

It's all coming from the same place! Not kind. The level is irrelevant.

Today a sign. Tomorrow armed Welsh militia rounding up English tourists.

Hate will not bring love.

Where is Tom Jones in all of this???

[kissmelittleass]

No it's not acceptable by any means, I live in Ireland I'm English and the amount of abuse my kids have had at school nasty comments about being English and past history is scandalous even from a teacher who I had to report because he picked on one of my dc because he was English and proudly admitted so in class one day!!
The amount of times we've heard ' give us our six counties back' said to us over the years is disgusting.
The recent euros with England doing so well did not go down well here, there was no support here what so ever for England it was Italy all the way.
Have had many comments towards being English too many to mention dads.

[kissmelittleass]

Sadly! Not dads !! On last line!

[NiceGerbil]

Why on earth would you expect Irish people to support England?!

???!!?????!!

The school needs to sort bullying.

[DewDew83]

@NiceGerbil

I hope you're a well-disguised welsh person, otherwise you can fuck off with your belittling bullshit and crap jokes.

[NiceGerbil]

You know I assume. About the racism that Irish immigrants were subject to in England? In living memory?

And the view of Irish travellers?

I mean it cuts both ways...

[IamEarthymama]

I left the Welsh Valleys in the 70s to go to university and lived in England for 20 odd years.
I was so shocked in the early days at university by the prejudice against the Welsh, I was treated appallingly on occasion by people much older than me.

I survived, of course I did. My children were born in England and think of themselves as English with Welsh heritage.

I am back home now and, while there is much rivalry re rugby, I don't think my English friends suffer abuse. I am going to conduct a straw poll today.

The second home issue isn't huge here in post-industrial Wales but I can totally understand the resentment and frustration of people who want to live near their families.

Re the Welsh Only sign could it have meant only Welsh spoken here? I am clutching at straws because I don't like to think of another context.

[NiceGerbil]

[quote DewDew83]@NiceGerbil

I hope you're a well-disguised welsh person, otherwise you can fuck off with your belittling bullshit and crap jokes.[/quote]
Why do you hope I'm a well disguised Welsh person?

The outrage over one argument and s sign. Jesus.

Glass houses and stones etc.

Did you SEE our boys kicking the shit out of Italian fans?

What about the windrush scandal?

The racist abuse of our OWN footballers.

????!!!

The way loads of people talk about the Germans.

And I mean... All of it.

Loads of people on this thread are total hypocrites.

England is racist and xenophobic. Often openly.

But no! One row and s sign??!! The way people are getting so stuck in about that. Totally disproportionately. Interesting tbh.

What do you all think of the things we do. As a nation. If those 2 things condemn the Welsh. What do the things I mentioned say about us?

[BabyBearRus]

NiceGerbil My grandparents were Irish immigrants, and no they did not have an easy life. The prejudice against the Irish in England during the troubles was terrible. Unfortunately my family had to live through all that terrible suspicion. This is why I am so concerned about the way the English are treated today, much of it based on prejudicial ways of thinking. It's time to overcome the past and work towards a more positive future.

[DewDew83]

I left the Welsh Valleys in the 70s to go to university and lived in England for 20 odd years.
I was so shocked in the early days at university by the prejudice against the Welsh, I was treated appallingly on occasion by people much older than me.
Yup, I'm actually only 2 days out from the last time an English person in a pub started giving me crap about being Welsh. I'm not even in either country currently.

Re the Welsh Only sign could it have meant only Welsh spoken here? I am clutching at straws because I don't like to think of another context.
That was my hope too (though it does feel like a straw clutch) but careful, apparently we're so far down the food chain we aren't allowed to have opinions on acceptable behaviour among those of our own nationality

[Mzombie]

@NiceGerbil

English people seeing a sign in Wales that makes them feel angry and sad.

Is totes the same as racist attacks and murders.

It's all coming from the same place! Not kind. The level is irrelevant.

Today a sign. Tomorrow armed Welsh militia rounding up English tourists.

Hate will not bring love.

Where is Tom Jones in all of this???

Ha!

[DewDew83]

@NiceGerbil

For the third or fourth time, I'm Welsh. I do not need you to Anglosplain the concept of xenophobia to me, diolch.

[cuparfull]

@BabyBearRus

P.s. I'm not being apologetic, but rather wondering why the English get such a negative press.

Because at last the English are starting to show some independence. We chose not to be part of a homologous structure in Europe and instead forge ahead shedding ourselves of the bureaucratic encumbrances Europe entails. Sadly not all our nations agreed.
The French don't like us cos we saved their sorry asses in two world wars and they've never got over it!

[Mzombie]

Oh give it a rest! How pathetic and deluded can you get?!

[HappyTimeTunnelDinosaur]

@nicegerbil Some in England are racist and xenophobic, many are not. The same may be said for any country and any person.

Many countries have greater problems with violent football fans, which is ridiculous and in my opinion is just football being used as an excuse to act like a prat and the country they are from is irrelevant. I don't condone behaviour like that whatever the reason given and all should be suitably dealt with and made to face consequences.

I've lived in 5 different countries, in all of them I have seen and heard different stereotypes about different countries, some serious and others less so. However, most people I have come across has been generally kind and able to get along, which is the most important thing.

[Mzombie]

I am "English" btw but prefer to think of myself as British as the rest of these islands are less shamefully pathetic than England is right now. Maybe soeak to some people outside England to see how your little xenophobic project is playing out. Clue: not well.

[Mzombie]

[quote HappyTimeTunnelDinosaur]@nicegerbil Some in England are racist and xenophobic, many are not. The same may be said for any country and any person.

Many countries have greater problems with violent football fans, which is ridiculous and in my opinion is just football being used as an excuse to act like a prat and the country they are from is irrelevant. I don't condone behaviour like that whatever the reason given and all should be suitably dealt with and made to face consequences.

I've lived in 5 different countries, in all of them I have seen and heard different stereotypes about different countries, some serious and others less so. However, most people I have come across has been generally kind and able to get along, which is the most important thing.[/quote]
Nope, England has a FAR worse problem with it than most countries. Which is why it will not even be genuinely considered now for hosting the World Cup.

[NiceGerbil]

@BabyBearRus

NiceGerbil My grandparents were Irish immigrants, and no they did not have an easy life. The prejudice against the Irish in England during the troubles was terrible. Unfortunately my family had to live through all that terrible suspicion. This is why I am so concerned about the way the English are treated today, much of it based on prejudicial ways of thinking. It's time to overcome the past and work towards a more positive future.

During the troubles was?

Your grandparents?

I'm sure you don't mean to make it sound like ages ago.

It's not really that long ago that the IRA were active and there were bombs.

And things aren't looking too good in NI recently at all. It's really worrying.

I think it's all getting stirred up by something called brexit? And Boris etc totally failing to

Understand that the UK leaving the EU would leave an intractable problem with NI

or not caring

Not being too concerned seemingly about the size of the issue while Europe kept saying look this is a big deal

And then implementing a 'solution' that had s high chance of increasing tensions that had never really gone away...

[Saoirse82]

I'm with @DinosaurDuvet on this.

[Antipastoselection]

I am Welsh with an English Father. I have lived here all my life and speak Welsh fluently, My English family are so lovely about their Welsh neighbours that I can’t bring myself to ever tell them that they are hated by the Welsh in general (including my Welsh family) in return. My kids however, born and schooled Welsh, but to a father who is also Welsh and English, have seen this ugliness for themselves, and have become so disgusted by the Welsh attitude towards their English family - heightened by the Welsh football team’s celebration when England went out of the 2016 euros to Iceland, that two out of my three (aged 21 and 19) now support “anyone but Wales” in football (the third is only 6 and thankfully as yet unaware) but I am sad that my children are so anti-Welsh now because of how they have seen their “English family”treated.
Sadly, the Welsh who hate the English forget that their are many of mixed Welsh/English nationality trying to be comfortable with who they are and settling with the least nasty of the two, which in my family seems to be no contest to England. My Welsh friends are turning their own against their own because of a history that no one alive today is responsible for.
We as a family are leaving Wales early next year as my husband has a new job lined up in the South of England, and I have to admit I am ashamed now to be Welsh and after living my whole life witnessing anti-English behaviour that I have been utterly uncomfortable with, I can’t wait to leave and will never come back.