Is racism against the English acceptable?

[BabyBearRus]

We are currently on holiday in Wales and have just heard an altercation outside our holiday accommodation blasting the "bastard English who come to stay here". I'm shocked. I am half Welsh and half Irish, and spent much time in both countries. But also spent half my life in England. There has always been a jovial criticism of the English, e.g. during rugby internationals etc, but in recent years the tone has become more racist. I also find this resentful attitude towards the English amongst my Irish and Scottish friends. The English seem to be an acceptable people to hate. Surely this should be classed as racism? And, I'm saying this from a predominantly Welsh and Irish heritage. Yes, I am aware of the history of these isles, but when are we going to get over this? Truly baffled.

Agree with @Whaam about devolution and England.

Disgraceful that Johnson wants to walk devolution back!

For those saying about people switching to Welsh when they enter the cafe/pub. In a group of mixed Welsh/English speakers there will always be switching from one language to another - e.g. Ifor speaks to Rhys in Welsh, but to me in English so there will be switching too and fro depending who is talking to who. In my experience (living, school and work in N. Wales for many years), if there is an oportunity to speak Welsh it will be taken, even if only for a few sentences in an otherwise mostly English conversation. I did ask about this once and it was explained that if they only spoke English when non Welsh speakers were in earshot they'd never get to speak Welsh. Everyone I know who is Welsh first language happily switch to English when I join the conversation, or help me with my very much beginner Welsh. They are always chuffed when I try - even if it's very basic.

[quote Oakmaiden]@BrozTito

A scottish girl told me the other day that the english 'banned teaching scottish history until 2006'

Well, she was wrong. I was educated in Scotland in the late 70s early 80s and it was very focused on Scots history and people. When the National Curriculum was created in England and Wales in the late 80s it did not apply to Scotland. interesting that she believes it to be true, though...[/quote]
I took that post to mean that teaching Scottish history was banned in England, not Scotland? I.e. Scottish history isn't taught in English schools? It's a question, as I have no idea , but that was how I read that post.

@lannistunut

Holiday homes, Airbnb even when owned by locals is being frothed about. They cannot see the jobs from tourism the economic benefits all the year around.

It is not frothing to be concerned about AirBnBs etc., they ruin local communities. Research shows holiday homes benefit local areas less than family homes.

But locals are free to sell their homes to anyone they want. That horse has bolted. Why would a local lose 100k so a local could afford it

England the gaslighting and financial abusive boyfriend, its a polygamous relationship

Remember when we went to that foreign country Scotland, well you started that fight just as much as I did, yes I know I picked the destination and I got the most out of it but you were there so youre to blame too

Wales although we enacted laws in parliament to suppress the Welsh language it was you making people stop speaking it, cant be blamed on us, its not me making you sell your houses to the English, my chronic underfunding and theft of your resources had nothing to do with it

Ireland - see years 1920 -1998

But locals are free to sell their homes to anyone they want. That horse has bolted. Why would a local lose 100k so a local could afford it

Yes quite, but no point pretending holiday homes are anything other than a negative for an area. Holiday homes ruin communities.

@Bagamoyo1

It annoys me too OP. It seems that it’s perfectly fine for anyone to openly loathe “the English”, as demonstrated by several posts on this thread.

I feel the same way. Maybe prejudice is a better word for it than racism, but yes, it definitely is rife.

@JaniieJones

'The fact that the majority of people here seem to think that white people slagging off other white people is remotely comparable to the systemic, government-sponsored and very often deadly racism against black and brown people is... well, I don't want to get banned, so I won't tell you what I really think of you.'

'Literally not one person has said that. There are different types of bigotry. We must understand them all'

Yes we aren't saying xenophobia is worse than racism we are saying intolerance and hate based on nationality or race is wrong. Posters really can't object to racism then sneer at 'white people'. Well people can and do but it makes them look as bad as racists and why tf would they want that!

"but it makes them look as bad as racists and why tf would they want that!" NO! It doesn't "make them look as bad as racists". They are NOT equivalent. Welsh people popping off about the English is not remotely equivalent to racism and by comparing them and saying one is as bad as the other, you are saying that the discomfort of English people who (in this case) own second homes is equivalent to the systemic, government-sponsored racism that leads to (at best) inequality in health and educational outcomes and (at worst) death and the destruction of families and communities.

How is this so bloody hard to understand? You are minimising and dismissing racism by comparing it to something that is not remotely equivalent.

@MrsHuntGeneNotJeremyObviously

More people live in England than Scotland or Wales or Northern Ireland, so government is always going to do what the majority vote for. So it's a bit difficult to say that all 4 should be equal. What does that mean in reality? Obviously, everyone in the UK should have equality of opportunity when it comes to accessing decent healthcare, education and all other facilities that make it possible to live well. And I would agree that the BBC etc ought to remember that school holidays are not the same and broadcast accordingly. But it's tricky when it comes to voting. If you argue that the countries should have equal weight in political decisions such as Brexit or whether there's a Tory government, then in reality it means that approx 11 million people would determine the future of 55 million. Yet at the same time I completely see that if you are Scottish, Welsh or N Irish you might feel that even if your whole country voted the same way it wouldn't count if the majority in England voted differently. It's a problem, for sure, but I don't know the solution. Devolution covers many of the things which affect people on a day to day basis but not everything - maybe that's the down side of being in a union, but if you choose it then you do kind of have to accept majority rule. And Scotland, at least did choose it. Wales doesn't seem to have much appetite for independence.

Well, federalism might be an answer, but nobody is interested in talking about it. Otherwise, that is why there is an increasing drive for independence (or at least a persistent one) in the other three nations.

Scotland chose it, but narrowly. It was the older vote that swung it. As older people die and younger ones are able to vote, the desire for independence might increase. The polls suggest that it is.

I do think that these things need to be addressed if the UK is to survive, but nobody is listening. Brexit was an excellent reminder of that.

Developers pay councils set aside money in lieu of affordable homes. What happens to that money???

The Welsh government won't go for independence Drakeford has stated that Wales need England

Wales doesn't seem to have much appetite for independence.

The independence movement has certainly grown since 2016, if Scotland does get its own independence that will likely increase the Welsh movement

Hang on, Scotland wasn't colonised. It chose to enter the union. It was a Scottish king who became king of England in 1603. Financially Scotland does quite well out of it

Re helping neighbour. Yes my husband did go out, but by that point they had moved on.

Re holiday homes. It's worth mentioning that a lot of second homes are actually owned by the locals who do rent them out as holiday let's for an income. Others have inherited property from family members who were once part of the community. So this isn't a clear-cut issue.

Re Welsh speakers, I don't really have an issue with it. I've been at social gatherings where family members are chatting away in Welsh, but will switch to English once they know that someone isn't a Welsh speaker. For many, it is their first language.

@justasking111

Developers pay councils set aside money in lieu of affordable homes. What happens to that money???

It is bugger all.

It seems that it’s perfectly fine for anyone to openly loathe “the English”, as demonstrated by several posts on this thread. Sometimes I openly loathe the English and I am English .

Didn’t Scotland join the union as it had gone bankrupt trying to establish an overseas colony? It all backfired and they needed the union to bail them out!

It’s tribal xenophobia. The result of lots of little tribes living in close proximity to one another. It’s partly how the people belonging to each tribe establish & maintain a collective (and individual) identity. Tribal xenophobia exists as a social phenomenon of human behaviour in anyplace where you get this close occupancy of land & limited resources.

So as an observation on human behaviour (which always has a very simple, primal explanation behind it,) one might say that tribal xenophobia is characteristic of all humans in all locations where you see this close placing of tribes together.

The French don't like us cos we saved their sorry asses in two world wars and they've never got over it!

If you think the English alone saved France you need to some reading.

Scotland bankrupted themselves with the Darrien Adventure in Panama.
And yes, Scotland joined with England through their king taking the throne.
I’d like to understand better how the highland clearances are the fault of the English. Looks more like the Scottish nobility did it to their own peasants.

I’d also like to understand how some of Scotland is catholic and some Protestant. This isn’t covered adequately in schools. The reformation seems all King Henry VIII.

Hearing Welsh and Gaelic spoken doesn’t bother me in the slightest. It’s kind of interesting. I wish they took a little time in grade school to teach all the children how to read and pronounce the place names properly and maybe a simple greeting.

@lannistunut

It seems that it’s perfectly fine for anyone to openly loathe “the English”, as demonstrated by several posts on this thread. Sometimes I openly loathe the English and I am English .

We all loath our own sometimes 😁

'Sometimes I openly loathe the English and I am English '

Oh it's fine to loathe people. Loathe them for what they've said or done though not for their nationality.

Slightly off topic, but what annoys me is when news presenters (and presenters in general)are able to pronounce obscure place names in far flung parts of the world but can't be bothered to pronounce Welsh place names properly. The best one I've heard lately is Aberdulais (aber-dull-ice) pronounced aber-du-lay as if it was French - I had to rewind it to check I'd heard it correctly.

There are 'English people' and 'the English', they are different things.