Is racism against the English acceptable?

[BabyBearRus]

We are currently on holiday in Wales and have just heard an altercation outside our holiday accommodation blasting the "bastard English who come to stay here". I'm shocked. I am half Welsh and half Irish, and spent much time in both countries. But also spent half my life in England. There has always been a jovial criticism of the English, e.g. during rugby internationals etc, but in recent years the tone has become more racist. I also find this resentful attitude towards the English amongst my Irish and Scottish friends. The English seem to be an acceptable people to hate. Surely this should be classed as racism? And, I'm saying this from a predominantly Welsh and Irish heritage. Yes, I am aware of the history of these isles, but when are we going to get over this? Truly baffled.

@Brainwave89

MN threads on race are always a bit divisive. I am Indian, and racism is not only a white to BAME problem. Unfortunately we have plenty of Indian racists as well and there are plenty of race issues in other cultures. This does need to be understood better in the UK. Racism is wrong per se whoever is doing it. I do not really follow why the English are not a race. Some of my husband's family are Irish, and they certainly have suffered discrimination, and would be covered by race discrimination legislation. I do not see why an English person suffering discrimination would not also be covered.

My DH is ME and oh my god. The racism towards others (black, white, Indian) within the community really surprised me. I believe it can go both ways. Maybe it's because I am coming from country which never had any power (probably the opposite actually) anywhere so it's simply hating people for different skin or nationality for me, rather than about power. Maybe that's why people can't agree because everyone feels it differently?

Scotland was massively involved in the British Empire.

@oneglassandpuzzled

Scotland was massively involved in the British Empire.

Oh how very inconvenient for the xenophobes on here!!

The normons do really get on my nerves though. With their elite still dominating the richest people in the Uk and a few of their decendents still sitting in Lords.

^Bastard Normans I mean who do they think they are^

Not forgetting the Spanish Armada ship wrecked on the west of Ireland in 1588 they were here a short time yet many Galway people still look Spanish today, It is the county of brown eyed brunettes.
We are so intertwined now it really shouldn't matter.

YANBU OP. It's discrimination, pure and simple.

A large part of it fuelled by the woke who, for some inexplicable reason, believe they can decide (and impose their views on others) who is fair game and who isn't

@WorraLiberty

Yes, the whataboutery began pretty quickly.

So far we have

Black people
American people
Russian people

That's not what the OP is about.

It almost like they are saying all lives matter!

Interesting observation Whoarethewho

It almost like they are saying all lives matter!
C'mon that is an extreme comparison, people aren't dying on the street for being English.
"English lives matter"
The people who judge whole countries are idiots.

I'm from London - I can't afford to buy a house in the city where I'm from. My whole family has been driven out by house prices. Vast amounts of London are owned by foreign investors. Such is life. Unless owning a second home becomes illegal, you can't really condemn people for buying one. Presumably there are Welsh property owners who are quite happy to take money from English buyers?
The nature of a united kingdom is that anyone from anywhere within it can live where they want, buy property where they want - there will be upsides and downsides to membership of such a kingdom but I don't think the Welsh or Scottish are particularly hard done by as things stand. Scotland did choose to remain in the union and I don't believe there's a majority push for Welsh independence, so it can't be all bad. Devolution has given both Scotland and Wales significant power seen most notably in the difference in handling of the pandemic. I don't buy that England is the evil oppressor, not anymore.
I think we make the mistake in the UK of seeing history through nation based eyes and not class based. The working class in England have not been treated any better than the working class in Wales or Scotland - the rich and powerful exploit the poor and weak, whatever country they are from!
And Scotland likes to minimise it's own role in colonialism and the the empire, while blaming England for being oppressive.

It's just staggering isn't it that people who have purported to be marginalised seem to take such pleasure in doing it to others? Why?!

Maybe because some of them are very ignorant, which probably has more to do with their "disadvantage" than anything done by anyone else

As with many racists/xenophobes/whatever, it's so much easier to pick some other group and blame them than to look within

The current Welsh Government and Mr Drakeford do not help in the anti English rhetoric.
Tourist Taxes
Keep Wales safe from the Covid Spreading Marauding English folk.

He is the master at divide and rule.

And yes I am Welsh

Not to mention that Wales makes money from tourism

@MrsHuntGeneNotJeremyObviously

Not to mention that Wales makes money from tourism

Which sadly Drakeford can not see. Tax the Tourists, the tourists leave, the tourists leave, you have poverty, you have poverty, you have reliance upon the state, you have UBI, you have completed Communist Bingo!

It's not racism Stace, it's xenophobia.

No of course it's not ok.
Especially not in the circumstances you described OP.

@HauteGirlSummer

It's not hate based on the colour of their skin and race so therefore not classed as racism. However abuse is abuse and shouldn't be encouraged. It's prejudice.

In UK equality law 'race' includes nationality and national origins.

E.g. the Equality and Human Rights Commission says: "In the Equality Act, race can mean your colour, or your nationality (including your citizenship). It can also mean your ethnic or national origins, which may not be the same as your current nationality." www.equalityhumanrights.com/en/advice-and-guidance/race-discrimination

Actual law:
s9(1)Race includes—(a)colour; (b)nationality; (c)ethnic or national origins.

www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2010/15/section/9

Sorry if that has already been posted, I had a quick look down the thread and couldn't see it.

There’s a lot of prejudice against the English due to how they’ve historically tried to steal and rule other lands, inflicted a lot of pain on foreign people for their own gain.

Not racism though.

Yes ive experience this in wales with my welsh husband-had people taloking in welsh so i couldnt understand and my sil had a go at 2 women in a shop slagging me off

And England is unique in this Swisslady ?

People speaking Welsh in Wales. How very dare they.

Depends what they're saying in Welsh Troi. If they are slagging off a woman just because she is English, that's unacceptable whatever language they are saying it in

'There’s a lot of prejudice against the English due to how they’ve historically tried to steal and rule other lands, inflicted a lot of pain on foreign people for their own gain.'

As did everyone else. The clue in your post is 'historically'. We aren't doing it now and also the point is you should not be intolerant of folk because of the colour of their skin or where they were born. Unless youre a racist/xenophobe?

@oneglassandpuzzled

Scotland was massively involved in the British Empire.

Damn right. And also the Welsh and Irish. Hence all the Eurasian families from India, Burma and elsewhere with surnames like McIntyre, Hughes and Mayo.

I've seen terms like 'gammon' being allowed to stand on MN. It's prejudice, and it's unpleasant.

@Swisslady

There’s a lot of prejudice against the English due to how they’ve historically tried to steal and rule other lands, inflicted a lot of pain on foreign people for their own gain.

Not racism though.

Do you feel the same way about other countries with a colonial past. Belgium, France, Japan, etc. the Dutch were dreadful. We don't hear much about them on these kind of threads do we.

Most white people on these islands will be a mix of them all anyway so its quite laughable to feel outrage on behalf of some mythical ancestors when at some point your ancestry line will contain both oppressors and oppressees

My view too. I have Irish ancestors, some of whom went to the US, and others came to Britain.

Mu English ancestors appear to have worked in the cotton mills, so I don't think there was much oppressing going on there.

Oppression had a lot more to do with class than where you live. Rich people got richer off the backs of poorer people, wherever they lived.

And even if I had come from a rich background, I am not responsible for what my ancestors did 100 or 200 years ago. It's time we stopped all this nonsense - we have issues here and now to resolve.