Is racism against the English acceptable?

[BabyBearRus]

We are currently on holiday in Wales and have just heard an altercation outside our holiday accommodation blasting the "bastard English who come to stay here". I'm shocked. I am half Welsh and half Irish, and spent much time in both countries. But also spent half my life in England. There has always been a jovial criticism of the English, e.g. during rugby internationals etc, but in recent years the tone has become more racist. I also find this resentful attitude towards the English amongst my Irish and Scottish friends. The English seem to be an acceptable people to hate. Surely this should be classed as racism? And, I'm saying this from a predominantly Welsh and Irish heritage. Yes, I am aware of the history of these isles, but when are we going to get over this? Truly baffled.

@fairyannie

I blame the Romans.

And the Vikings.

🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

God yes those Italians and their empires I mean how could some Scot nats cheer for them in the euros final! Oh yes because they have inferiority and persecution complexes are xenophobes and hate the English. Lovely.

[quote youshallnotpass9]**@Grimacingfrog* that was not @Flamingdingus view point, someone else said that about the world wars, I believe it was @cuparfull* at 3.55 this morning[/quote]
Thanks. I was unable to quote so tried to highlight the post I was responding to.

@fairyannie

I blame the Romans.

And the Vikings.

🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

And those god damn normans! Coming over here and oppressing my Saxon ancestors!! But don’t forget that the Saxons invaded and displaced my even older Celtic ancestors! And when they were just getting back on their feet after the Romans leaving! How dare they!

The average person is such a mix at this point we can’t hold anything against each other for which nation we were born in. I myself am a mix of English, welsh and Irish and that’s just the ones I know about! Who knows when you go even further back!

If you need someone to direct your anger at, aim it at the government. Not the general public.

I don't think it is comparable to racism. I am not minimizing xenophobia I've been called a paddy c*nt, potato picker and worse while working in betting call centre, gamblers are the worst however it doesn't compare to the Racism my friends and neighbours receive.
I see the Gardai stopping a car their approach to black or romanian drivers is very agressive. My nieces 2 friends born in Ireland were held overnight in Liverpool off the boat by immigration until they could confirm their identity with the Irish embassy. Another friend went to buy trainers in JD they have a staff code is a shopper is suspect, niece got the walkie talkie message code red watch customer closely, arrived to customers to see one of her good friends yes a black boy waiting to buy his Christmas shoes.

I really can't believe someone on this thread said in all earnest that a lot of anti-English sentiment stems from jealousy "they hate us coz they ain't us."

My god

Doadeer when were they 'subjugated'? Miight want to read a bit about the union incase you talk shite online. Scotland pushed for the uunion after bankrupting themselves with attempts to gain colonies.

@TopOfTheHour

TenPenceMix, snap.

@TenPenceMix @TopOfTheHour snap. And I think it's got worse, over the 30 years I've lived in Scotland. My children have had direct experience despite being born here. It is stoked by politicians for their own ends (to vote them in again) and by SM for it's own ends (ie to make people use it more). It has become acceptable, 'admirable' even.

But there is something very wrong with the way, over a period of centuries, England has engaged with the rest of the world, including its neighbours in the UK.

England’s neighbours in the UK were very active in building and running the British Empire. England didn’t do it on its own.

Even Ireland played a part. “An unwelcome heritage: Ireland's role in British empire-building” by Hiram Morgan is an interesting read.

@Blossomtoes

usually being English can come with a lot of privilege

Usually? Tell that to the inhabitants of sink estates, the people on minimum wage, those with zero hours contracts. It’s arrant nonsense.

Racial privilege is not the same thing as economic privilege. The two overlap and intersect, but they are distinct.

@JaniieJones

'since many English go on holidays. The tops off with every pint🙄, the loudness, mess and inability to use bins, compalining that there were no chicken nuggets on dinner menu so kids starved (seriously seen it...), and the superiority.Of course many are not like that'

No, many are 'not like that'. Just like all Muslims aren't extremists. Your stereotyping and wild generalisations make you look silly and a xenophobe tbh.

There is good and bad in every nation.

You left out the rest of that quotes, but fine. If you quoted the rest of the sentence it said "Of course many are not like that, but these really are the most visible." Beginning was also cut of from "I wonder if Welsh have similar feeling because of the holiday behaviour, since many English go on holidays." As in, the bad behaviour ruins it for everyone so they moan about them all.

@NiceGerbil

There's no excusing that!

Lol.

Anyone want to comment on our boys kicking the shit out of Italy fans?

On a scale of 1 to shocking no excuse. How do they compare?!

The famous video was England supporters inside the stadium kicking people without tickets who'd stormed in though wasn't it? The guy in the Italian shirt turned out to be wearing an England away shirt with Harry Kane's number on it.

@derxa

The English based media were shocking during the Euros. It was 'us' and 'we' when England were playing. You're damn right we all cheered for Italy. I don't think BJ would have draped the Scottish flags in Downing Street.

The English media? You mean The Sun, owned by an Australian-American, The Telegraph, owned by tax exiles from Monaco, the Daily Mail, majority owned by a non-Dom French 'domicile'? These people stir up divisions because it suits their financial interests.

I don't buy any of these newspapers, so why should I be lumped together with them and their abhorrent views.

Obviously English people supported their team, like French people supported their team, or German people theirs. It doesn't mean that we agree with the views of the thuggish, xenophobic minority.

MN threads on race are always a bit divisive. I am Indian, and racism is not only a white to BAME problem. Unfortunately we have plenty of Indian racists as well and there are plenty of race issues in other cultures. This does need to be understood better in the UK. Racism is wrong per se whoever is doing it. I do not really follow why the English are not a race. Some of my husband's family are Irish, and they certainly have suffered discrimination, and would be covered by race discrimination legislation. I do not see why an English person suffering discrimination would not also be covered.

'I don't think it is comparable to racism'

It is!

It is the hate/intolerance of an entire nation based on where they are born.

Dislike politicians, debate policies etc but the crap on here about 'The English' is no better than saying 'I don't like Asians because.. '.

So if it's not racist to say bastard English, it's not racist to say asshole Scots, bloody Nigerians, sodding Germans, or Indian see you next Tuesday's?

Imo ALL of these are quite clearly racist and condemnable. I am not sure what planet Mumsnet are living on that some posters say that these are not examples of racism, but of it's counterpart prejudice. I mean wtaf?????

Most white people on these islands will be a mix of them all anyway so its quite laughable to feel outrage on behalf of some mythical ancestors when at some point your ancestry line will contain both oppressors and oppressees.
I've just always thought I was English, and then I went looking for a lost family member via AncestryDNA. Check out my ethnicity break down (40% English only).

I have to say I wasnt surprised by the welsh irish and scottish because of this idea of mixing but the Norwegian took me by surprise 😁

And the Scottish media weren't saying us and we?! Nope. Only the football pundits who were Scottish (what little we saw and heard of them) The national broadcaster the 'BBC' was particularly bad for this. Whole breakfast programmes devoted to interviewing Harry Kane's second cousin twice removed's budgie. England flags up in the Newsnight studio. etc.

I’m an immigrant watching from the sidelines.

When the other nations blame all their woes on the English it looks a bit chippy and I think it is a bit silly. These are rich educated countries all of whom participated in the spoils of imperialism.

It’s childish to blame all your problems and shortcomings on the other.

It’s not racist, it’s prejudiced and xenophobic.

The normons do really get on my nerves though. With their elite still dominating the richest people in the Uk and a few of their decendents still sitting in Lords.

It is the hate/intolerance of an entire nation based on where they are born.
A hate an intolerance still doesn't compare with an instant judgement and dislike based on skin colour or appearance.
If people outside hate an entire nation it doesn't affect you on a daily basis. Racism does.

Dislike politicians, debate policies etc but the crap on here about 'The English' is no better than saying 'I don't like Asians because..
It is similar but not the same.

Technically it’s xenophobia, not racism, But anyone who voted YABU is ridiculous. You’re still being seen as “other” and these dick heads are voicing their prejudice by showing you are unwanted in “their” country. Just for reference I am half Chinese and half English/Irish so I have (as well as my family on both sides) experienced racism and xenophobia, which are different.

YANBU to feel upset by these comments. I bet PP who think YABU are the same people who think it was wrong to say “no Irish” a few decades ago.

@Imapotato

"The average person is such a mix at this point we can’t hold anything against each other for which nation we were born in. I myself am a mix of English, welsh and Irish and that’s just the ones I know about! Who knows when you go even further back!

If you need someone to direct your anger at, aim it at the government. Not the general public."

This is a very wise comment.
I think it is (increasingly) 'stirred up' by those who seek to profit from it. In times of uncertainty (C19 etc) it is useful to get the rats to turn on each other, not the Lab techs in charge of the experiment.

It certainly isn't right, but I think a lot of communities are fed up of people who aren't local buying houses as second homes in their area which drive house prices up. Then these people complain that there are no services in the area when locals can't afford to live there and they have to move away from their families to start a family/better themselves. It doesn't make their comments right, but it's probably why there is a lot of resentment out there. It's neither the homeowner or the locals fault, but we are very good at blaming each other, rather than our government who do fuck all about the housing crisis, which is exactly what they want.

The same goes for the north south divide and poorer people in rural areas getting completely fucked over be wealthy people moving in and driven out of their communities. It is inequality that drives this behaviour and there is plenty of it in the UK.

@MildredPuppy

The normons do really get on my nerves though. With their elite still dominating the richest people in the Uk and a few of their decendents still sitting in Lords.

Bastard Normans I mean who do they think they are

[quote youshallnotpass9]@Grimacingfrog* that was not @Flamingdingus view point, someone else said that about the world wars, I believe it was *@cuparfull at 3.55 this morning[/quote]
Sorry @Flamingdingus, it's @cuparfull, not you. Apologies and thanks to @youshallnotpass9 for correcting me.