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AIBU?

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Original poster

Is racism against the English acceptable?

792 replies

BabyBearRus · 26/07/2021 23:58

We are currently on holiday in Wales and have just heard an altercation outside our holiday accommodation blasting the "bastard English who come to stay here". I'm shocked. I am half Welsh and half Irish, and spent much time in both countries. But also spent half my life in England. There has always been a jovial criticism of the English, e.g. during rugby internationals etc, but in recent years the tone has become more racist. I also find this resentful attitude towards the English amongst my Irish and Scottish friends. The English seem to be an acceptable people to hate. Surely this should be classed as racism? And, I'm saying this from a predominantly Welsh and Irish heritage. Yes, I am aware of the history of these isles, but when are we going to get over this? Truly baffled.

OP posts:

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SorryWoman · 27/07/2021 08:24

@MizMoonshine

No I don't.

But I don't believe the Welsh today are people whose lives are affected by pillaging and trauma any more than I believe there are still English people who bear the psychological scars of the Viking times, and if you do, I suggest you check your privilege.

igelkott2021 · 27/07/2021 08:24

@EvenRosesHaveThorns

I love Wales. But I have encountered when going into a local cafe, when everyone is speaking English they will suddenly switch to Welsh, etc. when they hear you speak. Not paranoia but has quite clearly happened a few times. Things like that make me sad, I go to Wales multiple times per year and positively contribute

Oh that old chestnut - it really doesn't happen. If they are speaking Welsh they were speaking Welsh to each other before you walked in. Also when you hear people speaking Welsh there are lots of English words interspersed - my guess for example is that the Welsh word for ipad is ipad, though it may be written slightly differently.

If I walk into a cafe in Wales they don't know where I am from until I open my mouth. And even then I could be Welsh. Plenty of people represent Wales at sport who were brought up in England.

"Hating the English" is rather stupid when we are massively intermingled in these islands and ultimately the only way you know if someone lives in England (but isn't necessarily English) is by their accent. Hating someone because of their accent is ridiculous.

As for "English privilege" - there are plenty of rich people in Wales. Nonsensical remark.

JustAnotherPoster00 · 27/07/2021 08:25

I see a PP mentioned the 'they started speaking Welsh' phenomena, its unlikely to have happened how you thought, more often than not if youre local and first language Welsh you know which shops you can start the conversation in Welsh but when youre not in your own locality, a shop you dont know or a new employee you will start the conversation in English but on hearing their accent you automatically switch to Welsh it would have had nothing to do with the 'english' people walking in, how would they know they were english could have just as likely been any other nationality

SorryWoman · 27/07/2021 08:25

@igelkott2021

Do you make a habit of dismissing peoples experiences of bigotry?

FloconDeNeige · 27/07/2021 08:27

This thread is a dog-whistle to the xenophobes, as we can see.

If you hate anyone because of where they were born, you’re a fucking disgrace.

MizMoonshine · 27/07/2021 08:29

@SorryWoman

Are you Welsh, by chance? Are you speaking first hand?

JudgeJ · 27/07/2021 08:31

@tallduckandhandsome

It’s not racism, English isn’t a race.

Yet if we were to refer to other nationalities by a four letter abbreviation, ie like Brit, it would be deemed 'racist'! I personally find the word Brit offensive but I'm not allowed to apparently, I have to 'suck it up'.

SchrodingersImmigrant · 27/07/2021 08:31

Because at last the English are starting to show some independence. We chose not to be part of a homologous structure in Europe and instead forge ahead shedding ourselves of the bureaucratic encumbrances Europe entails. Sadly not all our nations agreed.
The French don't like us cos we saved their sorry asses in two world wars and they've never got over it!

Just want to point out, that this is why most of Europe waa cheering for Italy... Why English are not particularly liked. Oh and you couldn't save anyone's arses without the others. Also example of the weird English ww2 fetish which is also known abroad. And if it's weird...

JustAnotherPoster00 · 27/07/2021 08:31

[quote SorryWoman]@igelkott2021

Do you make a habit of dismissing peoples experiences of bigotry?[/quote]
Youre right of course, I'll fess up, probably going to get thrown out of Wales for this but here goes, we never speak Welsh ever, literally never, the only time we do is when English people walk into shops, so there you go the secret is out, Im sorry to all the other Cymru in here for revealing the secret

MizMoonshine · 27/07/2021 08:33

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk guidelines.

ShitPoetryClub · 27/07/2021 08:34

Loved how you waited until to your second post to drop in the bit about her being a second home owner. Maybe she is really fed up with neighbours and family being priced out of her village.
My son's a nurse in Wales, he loves it there, has been made so welcome. No one has been remotely racist to him.

SchrodingersImmigrant · 27/07/2021 08:34

To answer OP. I would call it that. It would be more xenophobia but ime many xenophobes (and others actually) don't react to xenophobia like to the word "racism". We ahould use racism as it is in EA to cover all these. People just do "eh, what can you do" aboit everything else, but this word has the power

SorryWoman · 27/07/2021 08:35

@JustAnotherPoster00
Well if I were Welsh I'd speak it all the time. I think it sounds great

thedancingbear · 27/07/2021 08:46

@SchrodingersImmigrant

*Because at last the English are starting to show some independence. We chose not to be part of a homologous structure in Europe and instead forge ahead shedding ourselves of the bureaucratic encumbrances Europe entails. Sadly not all our nations agreed. The French don't like us cos we saved their sorry asses in two world wars and they've never got over it!*

Yep. I think the English need to take a long, hard look at why they are pretty much universally disliked across the world.

Hint - it's not jealousy as you are manifestly a country and a nation on the wane.

NoBetterthanSheShouldBe · 27/07/2021 08:46

It’s not acceptable but it’s been going on a long time. I lived in Gwynedd in the 1980s - full time, did my best to participate -- and it was horrific. I do believe it’s racism, and the English are as distinct a group as other minorities. I am very happy to be home, broke my marriage but still the best decision I ever made.

Haven’t found Cardiff to have the same issues.

SueSaid · 27/07/2021 08:48

@FloconDeNeige

This thread is a dog-whistle to the xenophobes, as we can see.

If you hate anyone because of where they were born, you’re a fucking disgrace.

This!

raskolnikova · 27/07/2021 08:49

@thedancingbear I didn't say anything like that so I don't see why I got that snarky response.

JudgeJ · 27/07/2021 08:50

@EvenRosesHaveThorns

That's happened to us in Wales so we switched into German, with the looks at them as well. They didn't like it one bit! It's a tactic we've used quite a lot, it's not just in Wales it happens.

SueSaid · 27/07/2021 08:51

'Yep. I think the English need to take a long, hard look at why they are pretty much universally disliked across the world.'

They aren't.

I've worked and lived abroad and people don't hate or even dislike the English.

You're a xenophobe. I'd be embarrassed to spout such hate if I were you.

derxa · 27/07/2021 08:52

The English based media were shocking during the Euros. It was 'us' and 'we' when England were playing. You're damn right we all cheered for Italy. I don't think BJ would have draped the Scottish flags in Downing Street.

TroysMammy · 27/07/2021 08:52

Where are these places that locals start talking Welsh when a visitor to the area enters a cafe for example? I'm Welsh, live in Wales and don't speak Welsh but I've never experienced or heard of this.

ElvisPresleyHadABaby · 27/07/2021 08:53

@youshallnotpass9

I think the problem is we don't help ourselves, at the football, we still yell 2 world wars 1 world cup and Christ look at the bile that came up over the pentalties

We don't teach our kids about the shitty parts of our history, I think when I was at a school, it went Willian 1st, Henry 8th, Queen Victoria, but gloss over everything other than longest reigning monach, WW1, WW2 present day.

I am not sure about the other 3 nations, but in my part England it is either starting to get far more racist, or racists just feel more comfortable in expressing themselves in the open.

Holiday homes are always going to be a problem, not just for Wales but for a lot of places all over, they are shutting down commuties and I would be very pissed about that as well.

Should people be prejudice no of course not, but there are years of resentment building up from all over the world directed at the English, not at the UK, not helped by the government voted in or Brexit.

I agree with this, and I think sometimes a victim mindset of "all the other countries are mean to us!" moves the focus from the awful prejudice and discrimination committed in this country, by our own people.

justasking111 · 27/07/2021 08:53

@BabyBearRus. can I ask if this home is on Anglesey or Gwynedd??

Imapotato · 27/07/2021 08:54

*Yep. I think the English need to take a long, hard look at why they are pretty much universally disliked across the world.

Hint - it's not jealousy as you are manifestly a country and a nation on the wane.*

Are they? I’ve never really noticed. Everywhere I’ve been people seem to like the fact I’m English. The only slight hostility we’ve had was in Corsica, but that soon stopped once they realised I was going to make my best attempt at speaking to them in french and wasn’t just speaking English in a loud voice and expecting them to understand.

Maybe there’s an English stereotype that people don’t like, but considering most people don’t live up to that it seems a bit silly.

So once more loudly for the people at the back… People are individuals, being born in a certain geographical location doesn’t make you a “type” of person and anyone who doesn’t understand that probably need to take a good hard look at themselves.

SueSaid · 27/07/2021 08:54

'The English based media were shocking during the Euros. It was 'us' and 'we' when England were playing. You're damn right we all cheered for Italy.'

And the Scottish media weren't saying us and we?!

BJ would have put Scottish flags up if the Scotland team had actually got through to the final. He'd have done it to rattle Nicola if nothing else

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