To advise my soon against an apprenticeship in customer service?

[BoltonDoowar]

DS dropped out of college at 17 and is now 18. He has average GCSE’s. His girlfriend is 14 weeks pregnant.

Despite applying to loads of full-time ‘starter’ jobs, he can’t even secure as much as an interview for a 9-5 call centre type thing. Due to having a child on the way he does not want part-time. He wants to be able to afford a flat to rent with his girlfriend. If they can’t do that by the time baby is born me and the girlfriend’s parents will still have them of course but they actively want their own place with their baby. And I think me and the girlfriend’s parents both mutually agree that while we won’t kick them out, we’d like them to actively start putting plans in place as we both have younger teens to think about as well.

DS is becoming disheartened. There are plenty of hospitality jobs about but he’s had a couple of interviews where they’ve been listed as full-time waiter and then at the interview he finds out it’s 15 hours a week. He wants an office day job.

He’s now looking at apprenticeships and has been offered one at a local office. It will be a mix of customer service and sales. Except it pays the apprentice wage of £4.30. The job description also basically says he’ll be a normal worker at the office and then will do one day a week at a training centre. It sounds like the office will do bugger all training themselves. He’ll get “Level 2 Customer Service” afterwards. I feel that’s basically meaningless, for roles like that they don’t want specific qualifications!

Before people say it’s not up to me, DS came to me frazzled asking for advice. I think it’s all a bit of a ploy for some cheap labour. He will be earning about bugger all a day for 7.5 hours work. DS’s plan is to use it for the experience and then once closer to baby being due he’ll apply for other office jobs.

I feel it’s a complete waste of time. If he wants to do that he might as well do one of the hospitality jobs for 15 hours a week and earn more than the apprenticeship and then move on in a few months. That way he’d have much more time in the day to support his girlfriend who is having a hellish pregnancy so far and apply for more suitable jobs to support them.

I’ve told DS I only think he should do it if he explains he has a baby on the way and therefore needs minimum wage because he’s not a typical ‘school-leaver’ who can get by fine on £4.30 for the experience. I think they may still end up taking him because they stupidly let slip at interview that DS is the only person who applied (and tbh, I’m not really surprised because I bet even kids can see right through them). We also both had a chat with his girlfriend today because obviously she should get a say as well and she agrees with me that’s it’s only worth doing if he explains his circumstances to negotiate being allowed minimum wage. If it was a proper apprenticeship which would help him get his foot in the door in a good sector and be an investment for the future of his family it’d be a different matter. But it isn’t.

Any thoughts?

He's better off taking the hospitality job and doing a part time hospitality course on the side

Yes negotiate for minimum wage, it's just shitty very cheap labour job that's probably going nowhere else. If not take the hospitality job.

That’s a good point.

I thought similar that if it’s a choice of working 15 hours or pretty much full-time for the same pay, he may as well do the part-time and do something substantial with the rest of the time like applying for better jobs, investing in his future by perhaps doing a course or supporting his girlfriend.

He can do the level two in six months and it's a full time job with some money coming in which is better than nothing. After that he'll be in a much stronger position to get another job if he is already employed. Doesn't want to work in hospitality and wants an office day job. In his position I would be saying beggars can't be choosers and he needs to take whatever he can get. No experience, no qualifications and he's only 17, he's not going to walk into a 9-5 £16k a year job by any stretch of the imagination.

Also, as an employer myself, it is considerably harder to train someone who is 17 with no experience in anything Vs someone with work experience behind them. An apprentice wage isn't cheap labour when the job takes twice as long to train up on.

By stupidly revealing DS is the only applicant they’ve at least given him plenty of negotiation room.

I expect they thought at this time of year all the school leavers would be flocking to them. But really, why would a school leaver want a full-time apprenticeship that earns them bugger all and gives them no worthwhile qualifications when they could do a worthwhile course at college, be around their peers and earn the same in an evening part time job?

The when you consider DS’s additional circumstances...ridiculous

We’re not expecting him to get a £16k a year job. There’s a big difference though between being on say £1k a month (these were the kinds of salary jobs he was trying to get) and a part-time wage in a full-time job.

It does t sound a great apprenticeship.
I agree he' d be better working and picking up experience.
A decent apprenticeship with a well paid job after it would be a different proposition.

When you say Level 2 Customer Services, did you mean NVQ Level 2? That won't be worth a huge amount really. I'd aim for an NVQ Level 3 as that's worth about the same as 2 A-levels and will be a great backup for someone who didn't complete college.

I think the point is that an apprenticeship in plumbing/electrics/bricklaying etc would actually give someone the skills to earn decent money either self employed or employed.

Customer Service? Not the same thing at all. I'd be inclined to agree with you that his plan A should be minumum wage for a full time job in customer services, plan B should be hospitality part time with time off to support his girlfriend and keep looking for a full time job.

I’d negotiate for minimum wage (but the fact he is having a baby is not relevant here). It’s about ensuring it’s a fair wage for the job.

I’d agree on the ‘beggars can’t be choosers’, and encourage him to take whatever is going to bring in more cash. We’ve all done shitty jobs we didn’t like, in order to get cash/experience/other opportunities - even with qualifications/degrees. He’s unfortunately not in a position of strength here.
Good luck.

It is a proper apprenticeship. It's got 20% paid time in training (at the training centre).

Apprenticeship pay rate will increase after one year to min wage, if he will be 19 at that point.

I'd advise him to do it. Its not the most wonderful opportunity, but at 18 with a year's unemployment, only GCSE's, losing confidence and an urgent need to get his foot in the door somewhere, he'd be mad to discount it. He'll get work experience in two areas of work, another qualification, and a chance to get himself started working. What's the realistic alternative at this point?

I think you and his girlfriend should be supportive and pleased for him, rather than run him down further.

I also am not convinced a job like this needs an apprenticeship.

The job description sounds easy peasy lemon squeezy. Filing, forwarding calls to the correct department, answering the door, putting an order in on the system etc. DS didn’t like college but is by no means thick and that would be a piece of piss for him.

Civil service?? Loads of AO (one of the lower grades) come up here - and I live rurally - they are starter roles for sure, but the wage is ok, £20-22k usually and there’s room for growth. I’ve seen DVLA, HMRC and various places in the Defra group agencies come up here lately.

Where I live there are lots of companies offering things like level 2 customer service free for young people. I work supporting 16-24 year olds into ETE, and would say that a customer service qualification might perhaps help him into a retail or similar job if he doesn't have any work experience but realistically it isn't probably going to open a lot of doors for him. It depends on the company- some I would say use apprenticeships to get staff they can pay next to nothing and sometimes the training element never appears. What else is he interested in? He could get his CSCS card and become a labourer which whilst hard work, would see him earn more. I have worked with young people who have started apprenticeships and then left to work in a supermarket because they see their friends getting paid more. I do think apprenticeships have value but it really depends on the employer's motives and subject area. Feel free to PM me if you want, I might be able to offer some suggestions.

I'd encourage the hospitality job. My dd (17)and ds (19) both work in hospitality part time contracts. Dd works anything between 14 and 24hrs a week and ds works between 15 and 40hrs a week.

Hospitality is crying out for good hard workers. Minimum wage but it's a good way to get your foot in the door, gain experience and build your confidence.

I've worked in " hospitity" & catering

I've had jobs that provided one free meal & drink per shift, which was good

I've had jobs where tips were shared amongst staff

Are there any jobs in hotel or restaurant where he can work his way upwards or supermarkets?

I say take the apprenticeship, the wages night be lower now but it could put him on a path to training and to a graduate entry pathway. If he is taken on after the course he could get other benefits such as health care and be working enough hours to qualify for tax free childcare to enable both parents to work.

Customer services is not limited to answering phones in a call centre.

@BoltonDoowar

We’re not expecting him to get a £16k a year job. There’s a big difference though between being on say £1k a month (these were the kinds of salary jobs he was trying to get) and a part-time wage in a full-time job.

If you have your way he is going to end up being unemployed another year. It is an apprenticeship wage, they are low. He can use it to get experience, even if it is just work experience on paper but hopefully he will learn about the world of work as well. I think you should be more encouraging and tell him it is a start and won’t be forever, instead of being so negative and running him down.

I'd only take it if there was decent progression after the apprenticeship was completed

Would be be interested in apprenticeships on the QA website?
They have office based opportunities.
It isn't a great wage for the first year but it does go up.
Dd did one and her first job after that, she's on 26k.
They were expressly looking for someone with a particular qualification- ITIL-which her apprenticeship had trained her in.
She also got 2 levels of SQA qualification in IT and AV support.
If she had stayed in retail she would still be on minimum wage. She has no interest in being a team leader or manager.

*would he be

What about learning to be a lorry driver? Apparently a shortage and it pays ok

If he takes it at least he can get some experience which will massively help him get a better paying job

His choice to drop out of college and have a baby doesn’t mean he deserves to be better paid than any other 18 year old with no experience or qualifications His potential employers aren’t responsible for his questionable choices and you do him a disservice if you encourage him to think they are. But HINBU to try and negotiate minimum wage for his age at least for the days he’s working in the business

Definitely from someone who knows, I've been working in customer care roles for 10 years, I could only do evenings and weekends it limits jobs.
It is soul destroying.