To advise my soon against an apprenticeship in customer service?

[BoltonDoowar]

DS dropped out of college at 17 and is now 18. He has average GCSE’s. His girlfriend is 14 weeks pregnant.

Despite applying to loads of full-time ‘starter’ jobs, he can’t even secure as much as an interview for a 9-5 call centre type thing. Due to having a child on the way he does not want part-time. He wants to be able to afford a flat to rent with his girlfriend. If they can’t do that by the time baby is born me and the girlfriend’s parents will still have them of course but they actively want their own place with their baby. And I think me and the girlfriend’s parents both mutually agree that while we won’t kick them out, we’d like them to actively start putting plans in place as we both have younger teens to think about as well.

DS is becoming disheartened. There are plenty of hospitality jobs about but he’s had a couple of interviews where they’ve been listed as full-time waiter and then at the interview he finds out it’s 15 hours a week. He wants an office day job.

He’s now looking at apprenticeships and has been offered one at a local office. It will be a mix of customer service and sales. Except it pays the apprentice wage of £4.30. The job description also basically says he’ll be a normal worker at the office and then will do one day a week at a training centre. It sounds like the office will do bugger all training themselves. He’ll get “Level 2 Customer Service” afterwards. I feel that’s basically meaningless, for roles like that they don’t want specific qualifications!

Before people say it’s not up to me, DS came to me frazzled asking for advice. I think it’s all a bit of a ploy for some cheap labour. He will be earning about bugger all a day for 7.5 hours work. DS’s plan is to use it for the experience and then once closer to baby being due he’ll apply for other office jobs.

I feel it’s a complete waste of time. If he wants to do that he might as well do one of the hospitality jobs for 15 hours a week and earn more than the apprenticeship and then move on in a few months. That way he’d have much more time in the day to support his girlfriend who is having a hellish pregnancy so far and apply for more suitable jobs to support them.

I’ve told DS I only think he should do it if he explains he has a baby on the way and therefore needs minimum wage because he’s not a typical ‘school-leaver’ who can get by fine on £4.30 for the experience. I think they may still end up taking him because they stupidly let slip at interview that DS is the only person who applied (and tbh, I’m not really surprised because I bet even kids can see right through them). We also both had a chat with his girlfriend today because obviously she should get a say as well and she agrees with me that’s it’s only worth doing if he explains his circumstances to negotiate being allowed minimum wage. If it was a proper apprenticeship which would help him get his foot in the door in a good sector and be an investment for the future of his family it’d be a different matter. But it isn’t.

Any thoughts?

Does he need an office job? He'd be better off learning a trade if he hasn't got the safety net of time.
you can get apprenticeships that last 6 weeks and then you are on a real wage.
My DH is on double his starting salary with benefits and he is just a labourer. Much better than anyone else who I know who went to uni. Looking at 50k a year in the next 5 years. Very easy to stepladder up to the next wage in those types of jobs because everyone is looking for an office job.

We were in the same boat with a teen pregnancy and managed to move out into our own place a mere 24 hours before labour started! Dh has provided for us and I wouldn't have life any other way.

And congratulations on your grandchild!
Even more so, congratulations on raising an honest, hardworking son who is actively trying to provide for his family. Absolutely wonderful to hear. well done he sounds very lovely.

Agree with you, and just wondered if he'd looked at NHS jobs, they have a range of jobs in estates, admin, nursing catering that he could explore. Better job security and opportunities to progress ?

These types of "apprenticeship" are a joke. They are a way to encourage employers to take on youngsters by allowing them to pay piss poor wages. The "training" for a job of this type can be done in a matter of a week, and doesn't require a course.

Your son would be better off doing a traditional trade apprenticeship. There are huge shortages in areas like building & construction, plumbing, electrics etc and you can make better money in those careers long term as a school leaver with few qualifications, than you can in office work, where without qualifications you can end up bottom of the pile forever.

I’ve seen some really dodgy apprenticeships advertised like customer services or admin. They don’t lead to more than minimum wage ever unlike things like plumbing or construction apprenticeships. It’s criminal that a customer services apprenticeship even exists. Good luck to your son.

It might not sound amazing to you, but if he does the apprenticeship for a while he can then show on paper that he can work as a receptionist for example, which will be much better paid and stable hours, and it also gives him an employment record and proves he is a reliable and serious employee, which will be worth a lot when he’s looking for his next job. If it’s a decent company then he may be able to step up to other things if he makes a good impression and shows willing and commitment. It will also be a boost to his confidence at this point, even if it’s only a shortish term thing,

I'd recommend a local council apprenticeship. They really do promote from within. But I'd be wary here. Sales isn't for everyone, it's all about meeting targets. If you don't sell, they won't keep you on. He'd be better doing finance or something technical.

As above, apprenticeships are valuable for trades, eg. Plumber, electrician, carpenter, etc. and the chance of progression is much higher.
For customer service though I would say a complete waste of time. If he is absolutely desperate for an entry level office job then aim for civil or public service.

He could do the customer service job daytime

Hospitality job eves & weekends

OP, why does he want an office job? If he was my son I would encourage him to get an apprenticeship that led to a proper qualification like a plumber or an electrician. I don’t know where you live but I live in Ireland and here they take people on from age 16 (they were advertising them recently) and you get full training and a wage.

He should take the apprenticeship.
Level 2 NVQ is not worthless! Its 5 GCSEs and a direct qualification in the field he wants to work in.

Also, I agree, if he wants office go the Civil Service route. Sales is really, really tough. And not for everyone and it cannot be taught!

I recruit front line customer service agents ranging from £18k - £21k (North West). It's not qualifications I look for, it's skills and the will to do the job.

Your sons circumstances mean he has a lot going for him if I were to interview. At his age, he has a reason to get out of bed each day and come in to work, to work hard and learn the role, take it seriously and put in the effort that is needed to work in an environment where the majority of customers are unhappy and in need of help.

He needs to demonstrate that he is trainable; that he can learn new things and adapt to different working environments. The workplace is not an extension of school as this is the biggest barrier to employing school leavers directly in to a full time non-training role.

I've had apprentices (paid min. wage though) and it was easy to give feedback to the apprentice supervisor as well as the employee, around behaviours, skills for success, how to adapt to a workplace rather than educational environment. Skills such as taking accountability for your own learning and progression are sadly lacking in school leavers.

The apprenticeship gives your son the opportunity to experience and develop the skills he needs to convince an employer he is ready for that front line CS role, they are very rarely entry level in the truest sense.

We don't have the time, money or training expertise to take someone from school leaver to competent within 6 months, in the way the apprenticeship support can.

IMO it is worth doing, but only if he makes the most of it as an opportunity to build skills, not just to get a qualification. Because you're right, the certificate is meaningless, it's about the skills he can demonstrate at his next interview after this role. These skills could also be acquired in other roles but it is harder to demonstrate transferable skills from hospitality to call centres.

For example; tell me about a time when you dealt with a difficult customer, what was the problem and how did you deal with it? I've interviewed hundreds of people from hospitality over the years and the answer is always very similar. Not happy with the food/booking cancelled/table not ready, apologised, got permission to give free drinks/desert/discount. This isn't in depth enough for a CS job, even if you think it is entry level, the problems and solutions are more complex and require someone to demonstrate a greater depth of skill.

Best of luck to him, whatever he decides.

Is he on UC? The Kickstart Scheme might offer him better apprenticeships: jobhelp.campaign.gov.uk/government-services/kickstart-scheme/

NHS / Civil Service apprenticeships are better pay / opportunity for progression / usually provide a L2-3 Business Admin or similar qualification. If he wants to work in an office Business Administration would be a better qualification to aim for.

Has he looked into any of the online careers counselling services? There used to be free services for under 24s without level 3 qualifications. There's the risk of him bouncing around low paid jobs and getting into a financial mess from the off if he doesn't get into something he will stick with.

Did the PP who said these jobs take a week to train, the current role I recruit for has 8 weeks of training then 4 weeks of a phased increase in workload before they are operating at 100% of a tenured agent. The training is a significant investment in that person, costs us £5k per person in paid wages and those of the support staff to deliver training before they become effective in role. Then it takes a further 8 weeks to reach the top of the competency curve and deliver the level of service required on a consistent basis. And obviously not everyone gets there.

I scrolled through to also say NHS/Civil service/local council are better for apprenticeship, NHS also do a few apprenticeship degrees such as nursing associate from age 16.

What experience does he have? Did he work part time during school? What is about an office job that he enjoys? Does he have any interests?

Some one else mentioned it, but the NHS have a vast range of apprenticeships available. (350 different career options!) Many are things you would never consider and most are actually not patient facing. There are obviously admin/clerical type roles there too, but certainly worth looking into the various options.

www.healthcareers.nhs.uk/career-planning/study-and-training/apprenticeships

From an employers perspective a 17 year old who has been unemployed for a year and is only educated to gcse level isn’t exactly going to be beating away job offers. I’m not being rude, I’m sure he’s a good lad but his options are pretty limited. OK, so a hospitality job might pay the same for fewer hours currently but hospitality is known for being pretty low paid, hard work and often unsociable hours.

I don’t think the apprenticeship sounds amazing by any means but I would think it’s worth giving it a try in the hope that the experience and skills he gains might result in further opportunities. It’s not like he can’t apply for a job in hospitality later if it doesn’t work out as he’d like.

I really hate them using the title apprenticeship for jobs anything other than what they used to be - jobs in trades where on the job training was needed. Everything else is just BS used to justify cheap labour.

I think his plan makes sense - what he needs is a career path if not he will be stuck at a dead end job. Hospitality might pay more at first but its limited and can be unsociable hours for the workers.
His plan of starting the apprecentice - getting some experience under his belt and then looking for further work shows great maturity to me.

I'd go for the part time hospitality role in his shoes, I would think it's quite likely there would be overtime available to cover holidays and the pay difference between that and the apprenticeship probably wouldn't be that big anyway.

Has he looked into places like Macdonalds or supermarkets? They might only offer part time, but again there might be scope for overtime.

Alternatively, agree with PP about trying to do a trade apprenticeship instead.

As a few people have said if hes going to do an apprenticeship I'd advise him to go for one of the trades.

It may be a low salary but you can be very well paid in the end when becoming eg an electrician/plumber. Brick layers can earn a fortune.

My DC worked in retail for some time, but wanted to move on to an office job. It was a big struggle to get any interviews as everyone wanted experience of working in an office.
I think these apprenticeships can be cheap labour, but it would give a foot in the door and useful experience for a better job in the future.
Is he sure he wants office work ? There is probably better long term earning potential in a useful trade.

@BoltonDoowar

That’s a good point.

I thought similar that if it’s a choice of working 15 hours or pretty much full-time for the same pay, he may as well do the part-time and do something substantial with the rest of the time like applying for better jobs, investing in his future by perhaps doing a course or supporting his girlfriend.

I agree with you.

He's very young.

Put the hours in in hospitality and get full time money in, meanwhile have a good think about what he wants to do.

17 is so young to know what you want to do.

Being so young and without a job and a baby on the way isn't ideal, but they both sound like they want to make a real go of it.

Having a baby is exhausting. Sounds like they are young and ambitious and have the energy for it. I definitely reckon he should do all the hours he can in hospitality, save as much as he can (you could teach him
about finances as most 17 year olds could do with a pointer I would think), and then in a few years or whatever maybe he'll have an idea of what he wants to do long term and could go to college or get a trade apprenticeship or something.

He wants 9-5 hours to be around girlfriend and baby during the evening and nights. He doesn’t like the idea of him being stuck in a bar till say 12am and girlfriend being stuck at home with a crying baby. He is a good lad like that and has took this pregnancy in his stride and is determined to do the best for them both. I couldn’t be prouder in that sense. I know it’s the bare minimum that somebody should take responsibility when getting somebody pregnant but so many his age and older wouldn’t.

I have told him though that beggars can’t be choosers though, when it comes to jobs. I’m just particularly suspicious about this apprenticeship.