To advise my soon against an apprenticeship in customer service?

[BoltonDoowar]

DS dropped out of college at 17 and is now 18. He has average GCSE’s. His girlfriend is 14 weeks pregnant.

Despite applying to loads of full-time ‘starter’ jobs, he can’t even secure as much as an interview for a 9-5 call centre type thing. Due to having a child on the way he does not want part-time. He wants to be able to afford a flat to rent with his girlfriend. If they can’t do that by the time baby is born me and the girlfriend’s parents will still have them of course but they actively want their own place with their baby. And I think me and the girlfriend’s parents both mutually agree that while we won’t kick them out, we’d like them to actively start putting plans in place as we both have younger teens to think about as well.

DS is becoming disheartened. There are plenty of hospitality jobs about but he’s had a couple of interviews where they’ve been listed as full-time waiter and then at the interview he finds out it’s 15 hours a week. He wants an office day job.

He’s now looking at apprenticeships and has been offered one at a local office. It will be a mix of customer service and sales. Except it pays the apprentice wage of £4.30. The job description also basically says he’ll be a normal worker at the office and then will do one day a week at a training centre. It sounds like the office will do bugger all training themselves. He’ll get “Level 2 Customer Service” afterwards. I feel that’s basically meaningless, for roles like that they don’t want specific qualifications!

Before people say it’s not up to me, DS came to me frazzled asking for advice. I think it’s all a bit of a ploy for some cheap labour. He will be earning about bugger all a day for 7.5 hours work. DS’s plan is to use it for the experience and then once closer to baby being due he’ll apply for other office jobs.

I feel it’s a complete waste of time. If he wants to do that he might as well do one of the hospitality jobs for 15 hours a week and earn more than the apprenticeship and then move on in a few months. That way he’d have much more time in the day to support his girlfriend who is having a hellish pregnancy so far and apply for more suitable jobs to support them.

I’ve told DS I only think he should do it if he explains he has a baby on the way and therefore needs minimum wage because he’s not a typical ‘school-leaver’ who can get by fine on £4.30 for the experience. I think they may still end up taking him because they stupidly let slip at interview that DS is the only person who applied (and tbh, I’m not really surprised because I bet even kids can see right through them). We also both had a chat with his girlfriend today because obviously she should get a say as well and she agrees with me that’s it’s only worth doing if he explains his circumstances to negotiate being allowed minimum wage. If it was a proper apprenticeship which would help him get his foot in the door in a good sector and be an investment for the future of his family it’d be a different matter. But it isn’t.

Any thoughts?

@ittakes2

I think his plan makes sense - what he needs is a career path if not he will be stuck at a dead end job. Hospitality might pay more at first but its limited and can be unsociable hours for the workers. His plan of starting the apprecentice - getting some experience under his belt and then looking for further work shows great maturity to me.

I completely agree. Hospitality is HARD to transfer out of, especially to an office-based job. If he can live on an apprentice wage for a year (or is able to secure min wage from the apprenticeship), that will benefit him much more long-term. It's not the qualification itself - it's the fact that he will then have relevant office experience when he wants to move onwards and upwards.

I have a level 2 customer services NVQ. From there I worked in a high street bank. Within two years I worked in a London bank back office. Now I need local work so work for the local government. It wasn't a waste of time at all it was the qualifications I didn't get at school and a route to decent employment.

Oh and also I wouldn't want to be working in hospitality with a young baby/child - often you have no set shift pattern and you'll find out your shifts a week in advance if you're lucky, so how do you plan childcare around that? Unless your son's girlfriend plans to be a SAHM of course, but again that will obviously impact her future prospects at such a young age.

@goodwinter.

Yes this is why he’s trying to avoid hospitality.

Has he had a look at the Princes Trust programmes? They're fantastic - so supportive - and have genuine routes into employment www.princes-trust.org.uk/help-for-young-people/programmes

You need to look at the long view. If he eventually wants a 9.00 to 5.30 Monday to Friday in an office, then he should take the apprenticeship. It will be a first step and he can leave as soon as he finds something better (he doesn't need to stay and finish it as it is a low level).

No point in going into hospitality as it is a step in the wrong direction.

Of course either is better than being unemployed.

What does he actually want to do long term?

The apprenticeship doesn't sound amazing, and I think they're obviously not apprenticeships in the traditional sense. But they're a foot into a career with steady hours and ample opportunity to progress. Hospitality may pay more now, but he's pretty limited to that pay for the medium to longer term too.

If he wants an office job I'd recommend he finds a procurement apprenticeship. My DP says there's a shortage of qualified people entering the profession. It will give him 9-5 and can work private or public sector with good salary progression.

I don't think long term apprenticeship the worse option. Hospitality jobs often remain low paid, long unsociable hours and not secure. An apprenticeship in an office could potentially be the stepping stone he needs to a career. At the very least will gain some very transferable skills.

I would be strongly encouraging him to go into a skilled trade like welding, plumbing, or becoming and electrician. The industry needs these workers desperately.

What about retail? I know when I was in retail they paid for me to do NVQs (level 2 and 3) and I still worked 30h a week. You can also progress quite quickly if you take it seriously. It’s not amazing but if you get in with a decent company you could be a manager within 5 years. So about 28-35k wage.

Does she really want to keep the baby she has options

Apprenticeships are covered by legislation

He'd be entitled to 20 days paid holiday ( might be important to a new dad) and training rights. Level 2 Customer Service is a City and Guilds qualification, so could be transferable to all kinds of other jobs /careers.

AT THE VERY LEAST, a fulltime apprenticeship with nationally recognised training and C and G qualification , is going to look a whole lot better on his CV than "Part-time waiter" . Especially as work in restaurants could fold up on day one of another lockdown.

He should grab the apprenticeship and do his best to make the most of it. F/T Work experience (and training qualifications) are the path to getting a good reference; networking, meeting potential employers etc.

I think you are being incredibly cheeky to think he should be entitled to earn more than a 'normal' school leaver because of his 'additional circumstances'. That way a discrimination case lies! Or do you honestly think that men (or women) with families should earn more than single people doing the same job!

If he can negotiate minimum wage out of the office job then it would be worthwhile, both as experience and because (having done both) they are usually less tiring physically than hospitality/customer care ones, would have set hours, etc., so he would have more time to look for other jobs and look after the baby. However I'd suggest he'd need to stick it out for at least a year if he wants to use it as experience for a better job, otherwise with his prior history (dropping out of college) it will just look like he is unreliable and can't stick with anything. Otherwise even if he would prefer an office job I think he'd be better off working somewhere like mcdonalds, tesco, aldi, all of which have a huge amount of stores and different jobs and will promote from within, and work his way up with the aim of possibly gaining more qualifications as he does so.

If he'd prefer office work maybe doing an apprenticeship in a different direction from sales. There have been some suggestions above to research, give him a hand looking at options.
He's probably right about hospitality.

I did an apprenticeship in business administration and had pretty rubbish a levels, used it to get into university and now work as a surveyor. It wasn’t my dream job and it wasn’t minimum wage but it gave me vital experience.

@BoltonDoowar

I also am not convinced a job like this needs an apprenticeship.

The job description sounds easy peasy lemon squeezy. Filing, forwarding calls to the correct department, answering the door, putting an order in on the system etc. DS didn’t like college but is by no means thick and that would be a piece of piss for him.

www.instituteforapprenticeships.org/apprenticeship-standards/retailer-v1-1

They are intended to get young poeple well versed in how the retail business works, both in store and more broadly. They are expected to lead to L3 - Team Leader and on.

It isn't a case of palming the apprentice off on someone else for training- it's day release for the academic part of the apprenticeship!

Get him to ring them up and sdiscuss it further - klike how quickly can he complete the apprenriceship; how wil thepay change once he has etc etc.

But don't dismiss the apprenticeship, they are often bloody well put together - it's the providers who are often crap!

Any idea what you son actually wants to do? Surely at 17 better to get into an apprenticeship with a future?

A customer service apprenticeship sounds like it is stretching the point of an apprenticeship rather. Has he looked at other types of apprenticeship where there would be more scope for growth in the future? Skilled tradesmen are always in demand.
Btw, £16k is the annual equivalent of the living wage (min wage for age 23 and above), so it shouldn’t be that far out of his grasp for non-apprenticeship work.

It's not really a proper apprenticeship is it? Unless he wants a very basic qual.

This is so different from the plumber/building /care apprenticeship roles...

Customer services isn't a trade really is it?

Pal's daughter had worked in a busy seaside canteen waiting table etc.. Popular and reliable. They offered her na apprenticeships... Which would be less than half the wage she had been earning at 14.... And the training? In house... Exactly what she already had learnt and had been performing for the last 3 years!

They weren't surprised when she turned it down... And oh yes... She had been the unofficial trainer for one of the apprentices when she was still at school the previous year... As she knew the job well.... Utterly daft!

I’d encourage him to either take this apprenticeship and see if he can pick up some bar/waiter work for one weekend day/evening during the pregnancy (and for her to do the same, health and circumstances allowing), or an apprenticeship in a trade.

What are the GF’s longer-term plan? He’s wedded to the idea of 9-5 work but I’d question that.

Definitely look into Kickstart, it’s designed exactly for people like your son!

I’d actually encourage him to take the apprenticeship. In my sector (social housing) it’s a recognised route into the industry and members of my former team had started off this way - with a generalised apprenticeship. At the end, because so much time had been invested in them and they had proven themselves capable they were ideal candidates for a step up to other roles. It might not be the best paid route in but it worked long term. And as for negotiating, they will most likely be specifically looking for apprentices at that salary because they are subsidised at that level. I recruit these roles now and would not consider negotiating on salary.

At 18 with just GCSEs and a baby on the way is grab it with both hands. It will give him a route into better paid roles within 12-18 months.

Has he not thought of a trade apprenticeship? He might be better to learn an actual trade. More opportunities in future for him. He could try phoning round existing companies or handing his cv into trade wholesalers who would hand them across to appropriate trades for him if they are looking for someone. First year apprenticeship will be hard financially but im wondering if his wages will go up once he becomes a father as he has more financial responsibilities so he might need to let all potential employers know hes shortly becoming a dad. Hope it all goes well for you all x

I know someone who does this and I think you are being a bit disparaging, he will learn skills and can develop from there. The downside of it for her has been having to deal daily with dissatisfied customers and that is a definite disadvantage. You need to get him an appointment with the National Careers service or the local college apprenticeship people. Specsavers do an apprenticeship. Or look at notgoingtouni.co.uk
Also, you need to think long and hard about whether it would be better for them if you don't house them (if they can't afford to rent). Dsil decided not to when dn got pregnant, and although she was temporarily housed in a not great static caravan, they were then housed securely in a council property and life got back on track from there.