To advise my soon against an apprenticeship in customer service?

[BoltonDoowar]

DS dropped out of college at 17 and is now 18. He has average GCSE’s. His girlfriend is 14 weeks pregnant.

Despite applying to loads of full-time ‘starter’ jobs, he can’t even secure as much as an interview for a 9-5 call centre type thing. Due to having a child on the way he does not want part-time. He wants to be able to afford a flat to rent with his girlfriend. If they can’t do that by the time baby is born me and the girlfriend’s parents will still have them of course but they actively want their own place with their baby. And I think me and the girlfriend’s parents both mutually agree that while we won’t kick them out, we’d like them to actively start putting plans in place as we both have younger teens to think about as well.

DS is becoming disheartened. There are plenty of hospitality jobs about but he’s had a couple of interviews where they’ve been listed as full-time waiter and then at the interview he finds out it’s 15 hours a week. He wants an office day job.

He’s now looking at apprenticeships and has been offered one at a local office. It will be a mix of customer service and sales. Except it pays the apprentice wage of £4.30. The job description also basically says he’ll be a normal worker at the office and then will do one day a week at a training centre. It sounds like the office will do bugger all training themselves. He’ll get “Level 2 Customer Service” afterwards. I feel that’s basically meaningless, for roles like that they don’t want specific qualifications!

Before people say it’s not up to me, DS came to me frazzled asking for advice. I think it’s all a bit of a ploy for some cheap labour. He will be earning about bugger all a day for 7.5 hours work. DS’s plan is to use it for the experience and then once closer to baby being due he’ll apply for other office jobs.

I feel it’s a complete waste of time. If he wants to do that he might as well do one of the hospitality jobs for 15 hours a week and earn more than the apprenticeship and then move on in a few months. That way he’d have much more time in the day to support his girlfriend who is having a hellish pregnancy so far and apply for more suitable jobs to support them.

I’ve told DS I only think he should do it if he explains he has a baby on the way and therefore needs minimum wage because he’s not a typical ‘school-leaver’ who can get by fine on £4.30 for the experience. I think they may still end up taking him because they stupidly let slip at interview that DS is the only person who applied (and tbh, I’m not really surprised because I bet even kids can see right through them). We also both had a chat with his girlfriend today because obviously she should get a say as well and she agrees with me that’s it’s only worth doing if he explains his circumstances to negotiate being allowed minimum wage. If it was a proper apprenticeship which would help him get his foot in the door in a good sector and be an investment for the future of his family it’d be a different matter. But it isn’t.

Any thoughts?

Your right. Beggars cant choose. Hospitality is better then an apprentice wage and they will just have to adapt as a family.

I did agency work for few years. Signed up and took anything they gave me. Gave experience and skills to get the jobs I wanted

The thing is I’ve done similar work myself, basic customer service and I don’t see how an apprenticeship is necessary.

He’ll need to be trained up on the system they use for putting orders on, that’s hardly rocket science. Basic data entry. Even the customer service aspect is mainly forwarding them. A bit of product knowledge etc. Just because he’s young doesn’t mean it’ll take any longer for the information to sink in than a 25 year old who’s coming from a non-office job.

I don’t understand why it can’t just be a minimum wage job. Also to the poster who called me cheeky, I never said I expect DS deserves me because he’s knocked somebody up I said that there is no incentive for anybody to take the apprenticeship, especially not DS, when they could do something that will help build a better paying career and earn the same doing an evening job on the side, so they can’t be surprised that they only got one application.

*DS deserves more

GF has had awful morning sickness. At one point we thought it was becoming hyperemis.

@BoltonDoowar I think you are missing the point of the apprenticeship. It isn’t that your son isn’t as capable but he is up against people with experience. Why would an employer pick your son with no qualifications or experience.

I really think you’ll be doing your son a disservice to put him off of doing this qualification. It will look 100x better on his CV than a part time job in a restaurant.

@BoltonDoowar

The thing is I’ve done similar work myself, basic customer service and I don’t see how an apprenticeship is necessary.

He’ll need to be trained up on the system they use for putting orders on, that’s hardly rocket science. Basic data entry. Even the customer service aspect is mainly forwarding them. A bit of product knowledge etc. Just because he’s young doesn’t mean it’ll take any longer for the information to sink in than a 25 year old who’s coming from a non-office job.

I don’t understand why it can’t just be a minimum wage job. Also to the poster who called me cheeky, I never said I expect DS deserves me because he’s knocked somebody up I said that there is no incentive for anybody to take the apprenticeship, especially not DS, when they could do something that will help build a better paying career and earn the same doing an evening job on the side, so they can’t be surprised that they only got one application.

Yes, you're probably right but it's much harder to get a job nowadays without experience and qualifications. He needs to do everything he can to get some qualifications. If that means doing a shitty apprenticeship for 6-12 months then so be it. He could get a part time supermarket job to top up his wages. Tesco offer very part time contracts, I had one where I worked 6 hours per week and then did the odd extra weekend shift here and there.

I appreciate he wants to spend more time with his girlfriend and the baby but right now he doesn't have that luxury. He needs to work as much as he can until he's finished the apprenticeship and then he can get a better paid job and drop down to 9-5. By that point, his gf can probably get a part time job or attend college or whatever.

@BoltonDoowar

*DS deserves more

Try and look at it from a different perspective. Obv you know your son and know what he is capable of, and would find the job easy.

However, from the perspective of an employer who doesn't know him, he has no alevels, no other training, no degree and no work experience. So the apprenticeship offer is decent given he has no relevant qualifications or work experience.

However, if he wants to earn a good wage in future, he probably needs to do some more training and education. Rather than thinking short term, could you encourage him to think about long term? What does he want to do for the next 45-50 years? If his answer is anything other than minimum wage office admin, that's what he needs to go for, not the badly paid apprenticeship. He is young enough to go to college in the day and work evenings and weekend.

He probably needs to make sure he doesn't have any more kids until he is qualified in something that pays a decent wage, which could be many years.

Sorry jf this comes across harsh.

@IceLace100

That was correcting a larger sentence. I accidentally said in an earlier post “I never said I expect DS deserves me” and then corrected it to say “deserves more”

[quote BoltonDoowar]@IceLace100

That was correcting a larger sentence. I accidentally said in an earlier post “I never said I expect DS deserves me” and then corrected it to say “deserves more”[/quote]
What I've said still stands.

@BoltonDoowar Equally though, there's no incentive for an employer to hire a teenager with no experience or qualifications, when there are other candidates with those things. So realistically, to get his foot in the door he would need to go for something where there isn't much competition, like this apprenticeship. If it was advertised as a minimum wage job they would've had lots of applicants and your son likely wouldn't have even got an interview. I mean this nicely, it's just how the job market is these days.

Myself and a couple of friends did this after leaving school. Quite a long time ago admittedly. All of us went on to sales / sales admin roles within IT/ Tech.

The apprentice salary is rubbish. That's what we were on give or take a few pence 15 years ago.. (South of England). I'd expect it to be a bit more than that now. Worth negotiating a bit, but I would say he should take the job regardless and keep applying elsewhere. 6 months in the role should be enough. A Customer Service NVQ is ultimately useless, but good to say he's passed some modules in it when applying for other jobs.

If he's desperate for money a second part time cleaning job / bar work would top him up to save for baby things. I don't think that a hospitality job alone is going to be the best experience to land a nice office role later.

Yes I suppose one thought is using the office apprenticeship to get his foot in the door and then an evening bar job (there’s plenty of those types of jobs round here). Best he does that now rather than when baby is here.

@BoltonDoowar

The thing is I’ve done similar work myself, basic customer service and I don’t see how an apprenticeship is necessary.

He’ll need to be trained up on the system they use for putting orders on, that’s hardly rocket science. Basic data entry. Even the customer service aspect is mainly forwarding them. A bit of product knowledge etc. Just because he’s young doesn’t mean it’ll take any longer for the information to sink in than a 25 year old who’s coming from a non-office job.

I don’t understand why it can’t just be a minimum wage job. Also to the poster who called me cheeky, I never said I expect DS deserves me because he’s knocked somebody up I said that there is no incentive for anybody to take the apprenticeship, especially not DS, when they could do something that will help build a better paying career and earn the same doing an evening job on the side, so they can’t be surprised that they only got one application.

Op as well as the "additional circumstances" (excellent euphemism for "got my teen girlfriend knocked up") comment you also literally said "I’ve told DS I only think he should do it if he explains he has a baby on the way and therefore needs minimum wage because he’s not a typical ‘school-leaver’ who can get by fine on £4.30 for the experience." What is that if not saying "the amount you're offering would be fine for a normal 18 year old but my son should be paid more because he's going to be a dad?"

You keep saying that the work will be simple but that doesn't matter. Basic entry level office jobs often ask for degrees these days. Your son doesn't even have a levels. It's probably not a choice of the office choosing minimum wage vs apprentice wage for the same job, but apprentice vacancy or not having that job filled at all, because at apprentice wage they can just about afford it and probably claim some sort apprentice subsidy, at minimum wage its not worth it.

We have taken on lots of apprenticeships over the years at work in Customer Services at the apprenticeship wage. I can honestly say that the young staff are hard work, it really is not the same as taking on somone who has experience in a job and has confidence to speak to people on the phone etc. While I do understand the point about the rate of pay as its already been said they do have to do training which is being paid also and they are more of a drain on the resources while being trained up. If Customer Service is something you want to do, do it, its a foot in the door and for the staff at work it has as lead onto bigger better things both internally and externally. The key thing is that finishing the apprenticeship with good attendance and a good reference shows commitment and will make him more employable in the future. He needs to work hard at the job to prove he is a valuable asset to ask for a higher wage or long term employment. He could hold out for a job Mon Fri 9-5 but in all honesty they are a rare for his specific situation in this field (no experience young etc), alot of Customer service jobs are evenings and weekends too. Persoanlly I'd take it and if he needs more money get a part time job in hospitality or simular along side.

Also worth joining all the local agencies as they may have something that comes up but most companies will want experience which he currently doesn't have, as good as you think he is they don't know him or if he will bother to even turn up.

On the positive the actual apprenticeship is fairly easy and everyone I've worked with passed without problem.

I don’t think many people on this thread realise how demanding customer service roles can be. I’m sure there are some smaller companies where all that is required is a great phone manner and the ability to write down order entries. However most modern call centres require a high level of sales or problem solving ability, wide ranging product and technical knowledge and most importantly the resilience to deal with the general public (who hold views similar to the OP, very often). An easy job it is not and that is why some of the largest contact centre employers in the country take on approx 1 out of every 15 people who apply. Similarly while there is no doubt wages can be low at the start, there are many well paid rungs above it on the ladder. Contact centre staff can go into jobs like training, internal comms, knowledge management (ie the people who write the scripts and support for the agents), workforce planning, and so on, as well as other business functions like digital sales and service, marketing etc. It’s one of very few functions as well where it’s quite possible to go from an entry level position to managing a team of hundreds or even thousands of people.

OP I agree the salary is unappealing and that’s important to your son right now but long term I think there are very decent prospects in customer service and it’s a shame to read you being so dismissive of it.

I was once asked at a cinema if I there was there for an apprenticeship, no I wasn’t, but thought this has got out of hand apprenticeships are supposed to be for trades and professions not selling popcorn on the cheap

With a baby on the way I’d be trying to guide him (as I’m sure you are) towards something that can support a family even if not right away rather then trap him in low wages.

"I don’t understand why it can’t just be a minimum wage job"

Chances are if they had instead advertised a minimum wage admin/customer service job then he wouldn't even have got an interview. They'd have been inundated with applications from grads who can't get a grad role, people with experience but currently working part time, people made redundant during covid, folk leaving roles like hospitality, people (mostly women) returning to work after a career break...he wouldn't have been in the running.

I've got 15 years of strong retail and office experience and struggling to find those ' easy entry level' jobs he's been applying to and you seem to think he is above. He's better off applying for small hospitality jobs and gaining experience that way, working his way up for a bit and they usually have lots of over time and sick cover to get enough hours.
NVQs usually need you to be doing the job and using the experience you gain as your evidence so he'd probably need something to start with.

@21bee
Well done on earning 60k before you're 25 and doing this on the back of a modern apprenticeship.
Was this apprenticeship in customer care? If it was, I stand corrected.

I can 'judge' as I see many companies exploiting young people for jobs where there isn't an awful lot to learn... It's not a trade or profession, unless the definitions have massively changed.

I also did loads of customer facing work in my teens....we were expected to learn on the job quickly and we did. I certainly didn't need /expect an apprenticeship and neither did the dozens of other busy people around me... We were paid the going rate. For people who wanted to get promotion they did evening classes. It's what I did and then went off to university and completely changed career.

Keep him at home and encourage him to go back to college

@Rudeppl how's he going to support his young family?

@IamtheDevilsAvocado it was in administration. I didn’t need anyone to tell me how to file or type notes realistically but the apprenticeship and experience gained from it helped me get into university.

When I was applying for graduate jobs my apprenticeship job was constantly asked about and helped me to get a job many months before I graduated.

Gaining a qualification can only benefit OP’s son, having a child may well be the motivation he needs to aim higher. Getting some dead end, part time waiting job isn’t going to help him. The minimum wage is about £4.50 anyway so for the difference of .20 an hour he’ll be throwing away a good chance to further.

Well, this is what's on offer, it's what he's been able to find and get. It doesn't sound brilliant but it's something.

He might be able to do the job without qualifactions but getting the qualification is the solid evidence employers need that he can do the job - not just that he can do data entry etc but also that he can be reliable and stick with it.

It's not ideal and I understand your doubts but for goodness sake don't let him know about them! You are not doing him any favours by putting down the work and qualification that he can sign up for.

Tbh if I were him I would take it. After a year he will be on minimum wage with a full time job and a level 2 that he didn’t have, as well as being able to put office work experience on his CV. Office work is in such high demand that graduates and part timers with experience will snatch their hands off for a full time job. It’s also a great way for him to get his foot in the door. Could he go into a more specialised level 3 and get an a level equivalent after a year? I think that is more useful long term, and would show future employers that he’s motivated.

I think long term he is far better off with this apprenticeship, even at £4.30. He will be 19 and on minimum wage in a year, and he could save up for 6 months and move out afterwards. He is so much better off going for something he wants later down the line that isn’t perfect now.