To ask how to deal with hostile neighbours?

[Walkerby]

Hi all, hoping you wise Mumsnetters might be able to help me with coping strategies!

We’ve lived here for 15 years and always got on well with all our neighbours. Two years ago we built an extension and approached it with every consideration to our neighbours on both sides, inviting them to talk with us about any concerns or changes they might want etc. However the neighbours on one side (an older couple) simply stopped talking to us, fired off a formal objection to the council (their right, of course, but we always made clear we were happy to talk) and have refused to talk to or even look at us or our young children ever since. They were obstructive throughout the process, rude to and shouted at our surveyors and builders, and cost us an unnecessary several thousands of pounds in legal fees having to literally force their legal rights on them as they ignored the legal party wall correspondence (as per the legal process if people ignore it). In contrast, the neighbours on the other side were lovely, talked with us throughout so we could ensure they were happy, and signed the necessary paperwork protecting them without any fuss or cost.

The nastiness from the rude neighbours has been really horrible to live with. They used to take parcels in for us, instead they’ve signed for some and left them out in the rain. We still say hello when we see them as we don’t want to sink to their level but they act like no-one’s even there and completely ignore us. We’re now tense when they’re in their garden and tense when we have to go in and out of our own house in case we see them, it’s just horrible living with the hostility so close to our doorstep. It also upsets the kids as they ignore them too.

We got a dog last summer and if she ever barks in the garden (which isn’t very often at all) the neighbours just bang loudly on the fence which feels rude and intrusive (let alone sets the dog off!). The other day she barked for five seconds and they did it again really loudly so I texted saying sorry if she disturbed them but could they text rather than bang on the fence as that just unsettles her rather than having the desired effect. They replied saying they’ll do anything they can to stop her barking and denied they banged on the fence. I’m now fully expecting a letter being fired off to the council about the dog, even though I’d welcome the council installing noise monitoring as they’d see it’s a vexatious complaint.

Both my husband and I are feeling really upset, threatened and dragged down by it all. I’d love to tell them what I think of them but I know it won’t help and this is a lovely road and currently it’s very clear to our other neighbours how nasty these two are and we haven’t put a foot wrong. I don’t want it descending into ‘six of one and half a dozen of the other’. But I’m finding it really hard to handle this hostility from them right on our doorstep and my feelings about it!

Anyone have some sage advice on how to deal with it??

@fanmedown

No experience of this personally but I have dealt with similar issues through work.

My suggestion would be to enlist a mediation service - not through the courts, you can usually find your local mediation service online. They can offer shuttle mediation where the mediator meets with you both separately to ascertain the issues on both sides before eventually all sitting down in a room together. Sounds like something like this might take the sting out of their tails somewhat...

Oh god no way. They don’t need mediation, the just need to accept that their neighbours are being arsey and they don’t want to be friends.

There’s no way they’d go to mediation if they can’t even say hello

They sound very immature and petty. I would honestly just ignore from now on. I know you want to keep it polite and you sound like considerate neighbours, but the more you try to be nice to them, it sounds like their behaviour is getting worse. It is almost adding fuel to the fire, they clearly think they will get away with it.
Stop saying hello. Ignore them completely. The only time I would actively engage with them , is if they bang on the fence again. I would just say, instead of texting 'the banging on the fence will make the dog bark more' and leave it at that.

There’s really nothing you can do. They’ve been there for far longer than you (if I’ve understood correctly) and have got used to a certain view and outlook, you’ve moved in after them, you’ve gone ahead and built the extension knowing they were objecting (which was your right - and theirs) - and now they’re pissed off with you and have chosen not to be particularly great neighbours. It’s always a risk when you crack on with work your neighbours object to. Yes, it sounds like they’re being unreasonable and certainly banging on the fence is ridiculous, but it sounds like you thought they were just making a noise when they were objecting and would defrost, settle back down and be the neighbours you wanted them to be. Your reality has changed as a result of the work you did so you either have to accept it and ignore it, or move. I wouldn’t be escalating it by doing some of the things suggested on here, that requires a lot of negative energy and will just make things worse - unless you’re someone who relishes a daily battle.

From reading some posts on MN about neighbours from hell you could have an awful lot worse!

You know from what I read on here alot of trouble with neighbours seems to begin with extensions/conservatories. I wonder if anyone here can say why this is? A couple next to us got an extension built but informed us from the very start, showed us plans etc. They were very considerate as OP seems to have been. There were one or two things we asked to be done and the couple were happy to comply. Honestly, I think you just have to get on with things and ignore the nasty neighbours. I have to be honest though and I have said before barking dogs are a nightmare, we have three in the street and one goes on for hours. It sets all the other dogs off. I can't stand it but would not dream of banging on anyone's fence. However, there are worse things than extensions and barking dogs. Sadly, as we are all spending much more time at home now, I think everyone is beginning to get on each others nerves. In this country they have crammed housing (which is much needed I agree) into every available space. The downside is soundproofing is non-existent and with the fashion for wooden flooring, sound is not insulated the same. I can hear sometimes all my neighbour's arguments and need to turn up the TV when this happens.

This is one of those situations where everyone is unreasonable. At the end of the day, the OP provoked the situation and the neighbours have reacted to the provocation. The extension was built for the OP's benefit, not the neighbours'. It doesn't really matter that it was technically legal, if you persist with building an extension without first resolving the issues neighbours have with it (whether legitimate or not) then you're going to get a frosty reaction at best.

The dog barking doesn't help much either. I don't think you can complain about them banging on the fence to shut the dog up. If you stop the dog barking, they'll have no reason to bang. Again, technically you're allowed a dog, technically you're allowed to let it bark. But it's also a provocation and one they were always likely to react to.

[quote Notthissticky]**@Walkerby* I'd ignore @Viviennemary*, she seems determined that you're an awful neighbour.[/quote]
Yep.

The rear extension on my home was built 30cm to the boundary because I live in a suburban location in a semi detached property.

6.5m from their house is more than reasonable. Seriously, don’t give these twats any more headspace OP. Take mitigating action as suggested re parcels etc. tell the kids that there are just some unpleasant people in the world and crack on enjoying your home.

@30degreesandmeltinghere

Op buy out the entire stock of wind chimes in The Range.... And never look their way again.

Book the dog into kennels for a few days and get a recording of barking dogs to play. If they complain to the council about the noise you can prove your dog was on holiday at that time! A family I know paid thousands to have tall leylandi removed, much to the delight of the neighbour whose light they were blocking, she then complained about the lack of privacy!

I am sorry to hear this. It is very stressful living on poor terms with your neighbours; and can take its toll on your well-being.

6.5m from their house is more than reasonable

It would be but as I read it op has built to half a metre from the boundary, so 3.5m from their house.

All this communicating with them isn't going to do any good now. We had neighbours who took against us for a trivial reason (and they were in the wrong) but as most of the other neighbours knew what they were like it was easy to ignore them. Still heaved a huge sigh of relief when they moved away.

I wouldn't leave my dog out in the garden if he barks though.

And you moved out. But they had to live with it. Unbelievable!

You obviously didn't read the bit where the OP offered to send them off on holiday?!

I lived next door to a massive extension and rebuilding for over a year. 3 months is nothing.

I think you have done what you can and you need to stop giving this broken relationship headspace. It's their choice. And quite frankly having seen the channel 5 neighbours from hell series it's doable.

Stop saying hello. Do not go inside/force the children inside when they go into their garden - you are just giving them more power. Enjoy YOUR garden. You have text them now requesting they don't bang on the fence when the dog barks - if it barks, it barks. The suggestions of putting up a note saying do not leave parcels at their address is an excellent one. Get a parcel drop box for your house installed.

It's not you - it's them. Leave them too it

Could it be jealousy on their part? Do they have an extension?

Could it be jealousy on their part? Do they have an extension?

I would think it's more likely that the extension has changed the view from their garden for the worse and they don't like it.

With the Tories' stupid decision to relax planning laws in the UK and make it easier for people to extend their properties, I think this sort of dispute is only going to get more common.

*Notthissticky
I'd ignore @Viviennemary, she seems determined that you're an awful neighbour.

I agree there. That poster will paint any dog owner as an inconsiderate neighbour, which simply isn’t the case. (Some are, obviously.)

@tallduckandhandsome they don't have an extension, tbh I don't think it's jealousy, I think it's just the way they are, they dislike change. Short of not building at all we couldn't have been more considerate of them with the design and proximity and in the process so I know it's nothing we've done wrong apart from building a permitted extension, and now it's up there is barely any material effect for them apart from increased privacy. We'd spoken to them about extending for years before we managed to get the mortgage through so I wonder if they just thought it would never happen.

Grey rock. Get on with your life and pretend they aren't there.

As for the fence, get yourself a flower border along it, plant some nice, thick evergreen bushes. That will muffle the banging and keep the dog away from the fence line.

I'm not trying to minimise your feelings, I know this would have stressed me out a lot too. But, what I'm learning as I get older is that there are a whole heap of shite people out there. You can't control what people say or how they behave towards you but you can control your response to them (and therefore yourself and your well being). It sounds like you've been way too nice. Stop saying hello. Stop texting. Ignore them. Sounds like you've followed the letter of the law. Continue to do so because they will take any opportunity to complain about you. But get on with your life. If they want to spend theirs being miserable leave them to it. Don't let them ruin yours. I feel sorry for them, what a way to live. Hope your extension is lush and you're really pleased with it. They are probably just jealous

@ChainJane

This is one of those situations where everyone is unreasonable. At the end of the day, the OP provoked the situation and the neighbours have reacted to the provocation. The extension was built for the OP's benefit, not the neighbours'. It doesn't really matter that it was technically legal, if you persist with building an extension without first resolving the issues neighbours have with it (whether legitimate or not) then you're going to get a frosty reaction at best.

The dog barking doesn't help much either. I don't think you can complain about them banging on the fence to shut the dog up. If you stop the dog barking, they'll have no reason to bang. Again, technically you're allowed a dog, technically you're allowed to let it bark. But it's also a provocation and one they were always likely to react to.

How has the OP provoked the neighbours??? By building a legal, permitted extension and being polite throughout the entire process, to the point of offering to pay for them to go on holiday?

It doesn't sound like OP's dog barks excessively and OP can most definitely complain about the banging on the fence. A dog barking occasionally falls within reasonable living sounds; deliberately banging on a fence is nuisance behaviour for which OP could report the neighbours to environmental health.

All old couples?!

We're old. I'm a kind and thoughtful neighbour I think. I couldn't say the same about our young neighbours

Well, whilst they don’t sound the most wonderful of people- they aren’t being aggressive or harassing you, they are ignoring you. Is it nice? No, but you can’t actually DO anything about it. So I would ignore them in the same vein.

It was your right to seek permission to extend (and got it) but they obviously had very significant objections to your extension and are upset and angry- also their right. Whether they are justified in feeling this way is not really for any of us to say as we don’t know what you built, how it Impacts on them or why they objected so strongly. I doubt talking to you would have changed the outcome to an acceptable one from their point of view (I suspect they just did not want it built), so I can see why they didn’t engage and just put it in writing to the council. They didn’t stop your plans, so I’d just put it behind you. They were arses to cost you extra money re the party wall correspondence- and clearly shouting at surveyors and contractors is also not on. However, that is all now behind you and as they are ignoring you, ignore them back and you’ll get used to it, so it won’t be upsetting- it’ll just be the norm for your interaction with them.

Notthissticky

The OP has provoked the neighbours by getting the extension despite the neighbours objective. All legal and with the OP's rights but a provocation nevertheless.

Just because you can do something regardless of how it might affect other people doesn't mean they have to like it. I can mow the lawn at 8am every Sunday because I like to get jobs out of the way but don't because I know it will annoy the neighbours.

With the dog, one person's view of what's acceptable barking will differ from another person's view and the dog owner often filters out the noise better than a neighbour will.

In both cases, the dog and the extension, the OP is getting the benefit of what they have chosen but there are only downsides for the neighbours.

@ChainJane totally get that, but building an extension with every due consideration to your neighbours, and getting a dog and training it well so it doesn’t nuisance bark, is not at all unreasonable.

Again thanks for all opinions and thoughts! X

but building an extension with every due consideration to your neighbours

It’s as ChainJane says though - just because you can do something legally and with due consideration doesn’t mean the neighbours are going to like it. You exercised your right to build an extension despite knowing they objected and they are exercising their right not to speak to you or be particularly neighbourly in return. Both of you are now having to live with the results of your (albeit perfectly legal) actions.