To ask how to deal with hostile neighbours?

[Walkerby]

Hi all, hoping you wise Mumsnetters might be able to help me with coping strategies!

We’ve lived here for 15 years and always got on well with all our neighbours. Two years ago we built an extension and approached it with every consideration to our neighbours on both sides, inviting them to talk with us about any concerns or changes they might want etc. However the neighbours on one side (an older couple) simply stopped talking to us, fired off a formal objection to the council (their right, of course, but we always made clear we were happy to talk) and have refused to talk to or even look at us or our young children ever since. They were obstructive throughout the process, rude to and shouted at our surveyors and builders, and cost us an unnecessary several thousands of pounds in legal fees having to literally force their legal rights on them as they ignored the legal party wall correspondence (as per the legal process if people ignore it). In contrast, the neighbours on the other side were lovely, talked with us throughout so we could ensure they were happy, and signed the necessary paperwork protecting them without any fuss or cost.

The nastiness from the rude neighbours has been really horrible to live with. They used to take parcels in for us, instead they’ve signed for some and left them out in the rain. We still say hello when we see them as we don’t want to sink to their level but they act like no-one’s even there and completely ignore us. We’re now tense when they’re in their garden and tense when we have to go in and out of our own house in case we see them, it’s just horrible living with the hostility so close to our doorstep. It also upsets the kids as they ignore them too.

We got a dog last summer and if she ever barks in the garden (which isn’t very often at all) the neighbours just bang loudly on the fence which feels rude and intrusive (let alone sets the dog off!). The other day she barked for five seconds and they did it again really loudly so I texted saying sorry if she disturbed them but could they text rather than bang on the fence as that just unsettles her rather than having the desired effect. They replied saying they’ll do anything they can to stop her barking and denied they banged on the fence. I’m now fully expecting a letter being fired off to the council about the dog, even though I’d welcome the council installing noise monitoring as they’d see it’s a vexatious complaint.

Both my husband and I are feeling really upset, threatened and dragged down by it all. I’d love to tell them what I think of them but I know it won’t help and this is a lovely road and currently it’s very clear to our other neighbours how nasty these two are and we haven’t put a foot wrong. I don’t want it descending into ‘six of one and half a dozen of the other’. But I’m finding it really hard to handle this hostility from them right on our doorstep and my feelings about it!

Anyone have some sage advice on how to deal with it??

@memberofthewedding

I absolutely LOVE that!
Good job you had all the photo evidence,
and yay for nephew and big mate!

@Maggiemay92

Ignore them. Stop saying hello, it probably cones across as passive aggressive

Yep, exactly that.

@Malbecfan

It sounds like you have been really nice but they are miserable sods. So stop trying to be nice to them and treat them as they treat you. As Debetswell says, a couple of loud pretend conversations in the garden about letting your place out via the local Housing Association might rein them in.

@Viviennemary

You built an extension in spite of their objections. You also have a barking dog. You don't exactly sound like ideal neighbours yourselves.

Why shouldn't OP extend her house? And it's completely unreasonable to think getting a dog is being a shit neighbour. You can't live yoir life in fear of upsetting anyone; that's ridiculous.

Just because her neighbours are being shitty, doesn't mean OP has actually done anything. Sounds like they have far too much time on their hands and have taken it out of proportion.

I echo PP, start standing up to them. Tell them not to bang on the fence, don't say hello or be friendly. They're setting the tone.

Having it out with them will not end well. You can't make somebody like you. It is totally irrelevant as to whether you were reasonable or not - to them you weren't - and you don't have to justify yourself to them. They are not going to turn around and say that they were unreasonable and you were in the right.

Just ignore them completely and be grateful they are not throwing rubbish into your garden. (I once had to deal professionally with neighbours who did that and who threatened each other with garden implements which culminated in one of them hosing down the other with a garden hose.)

You don't want to end up with having to disclose issues to potential purchasers. These neighbours sound like they are simply passive aggressive and you want to encourage the passive. I'd block their number and never contact them again.

@LakieLady

My SIL & BIL had a similar saga with planning permission. A neighbour managed to get a lot of the neighbours involved in objecting to a planning application, and succeeded in getting it refused.
They put in another, but to massively enlarge the existing small property rather than to build another on the same huge plot, and that was again objected to but they got the PP and went ahead. It has ruined the view from the nasty neighbour's house, and he's just had to lump it.
A few months ago, he asked if he could use their drive to cut his hedge. They said no

I’m afraid in this instance I thing it’s your relatives that are being the arses. They wanted to build another house on their property and it was refused PP. An extra house is miles different than just a small extension, or even a big one! I’m not at all surprised that the neighbours challenged it. PP does not get refused just because the neighbours complain though. As was proved when they did get permission to extend despite the neighbours complaining.
Regarding your relative not allowing them into his drive to cur his hedge, that’s actually against the law. A neighbour has to be allowed access onto the neighbouring property in order to carry out any maintenance on their own property.
Your relatives sound awful.

@Notthissticky

God, they sound like our downstairs neighbour. We bought our maisonette as we are perfectly entitled to and live a normal family life. With two young children this is at times noisy, but both are amazingly good sleepers. We bought our house from a single man who was selling because he had moved in with his gf at the start of the pandemic. Neighbour has now realised that there is next to no soundproofing and has decided that the fact that our day to day living sounds bother her is our fault and we are therefore responsible for resolving the issue. She has taken to slamming the doors when our toddler has a tantrum. We went and spoke to her a few months ago and it transpired that she has zero interest in being reasonable or polite or finding a solution. All she wants to do is moan and for other people to solve her issues, no regard whatsoever for the fact that the law is on our side and her door slamming is actually grounds for a noise complaint from us. We had some workmen in and she moaned at them that she didn't understand why a young family would buy an upstairs flat. Outwardly she seems perfectly polite and respectable but she truly is a miserable, self-centred bitch. It affects me more than it should, especially as I have been at home a lot due to the combination of mat leave and pandemic restrictions. The only thing that helps me is to keep reminding myself that she is in the wrong and we are not doing anything we shouldn't do. Some people just aren't reasonable, and it's very difficult to comprehend or deal with them if you are. Don't try to get them to change: they're not reasonable, so your actions will not have the logically expected outcomes. Keep a meticulous log of their antisocial behaviour and stop contacting them. Don't ask them to stop banging on the fence and definitely do not apologise!!! I sympathise, it's shit to be ignored and feel like you're being punished without having done anything. I struggle too. We too have decided to keep the moral high ground, but sometimes it's fun to think of petty retorts and micro aggressions. My current favourite is fantasising about painting our garden wall (the first thing she sees when she opens the front door) bright pink if she pisses me off yet again

Yanbu OP. Disengage from from entirely. You, on the other hand, @Notthissticky... I can't figure out if you're joking or not. It sounds crap for your neighbour.

Your neighbours don't have to like you or be friendly. Just leave them alone.

@Malbecfan please don't misquote me.
I didn't mention Housing Association, I said undesirable tenants. The two things are not the same. The majority of HA tenants are just quietly living their lives like the rest of us.

What do they think they’re achieving by banging on the fence, surely they’d know this would wind a barking dog up even more!

I’d download a clip of the angriest, snarling barking dog you can find, and next time they bang play it next to the fence, loudly!

They must be exhausted with how annoyed they are with you. Hard to ignore I know.

May I just throw into the mix how very very disruptive and annoying extension- building is to neighbours?
Our ndns are currently having one built. We've not objected at all and have been utterly co operative throughout. But....we are having to put up with the noise, dust, diesel fumes, access issues and all the rest, and of course there is no benefit to us. We live at the end of a twisty cul de sac, so we can't easily escape! A huge brick delivery lorry has just turned up (7.30am) with it's engine running and reverse- beeping and I'm trying feel kindly about it.
Other people's building works are the pits!

@FuzzyPuffling doesn’t justify being a twat forever.

And often neighbours moaning about the extension go on to have the same themselves! Hypocrites.

Thanks so much for the support and advice, all, and I think you’re right, time to just ignore them. We won’t be moving as we love our house and all the other neighbours are lovely, we’ll just have to learn to deal with it. It’ll take time to not get upset by them but practise will hopefully make perfect!!

To those thinking we were unreasonable with our extension - it comes within a metre of the boundary hence needing the Party Wall agreement but the neighbours have a 3m wide drive down the entire length of the side of their house, and as the house is on a hill we’re several metres lower than them, so we haven’t built anything that is overbearing to them and the majority of houses on our road have done the same (some right into the drive wall but we left a reasonable gap). And we didn’t go legal to ‘force it through despite their objections’, a Party Wall agreement has to be done to protect the neighbour, a surveyor (usually the existing surveyor for those doing the building) examines and takes photos of the area on their side so it can be documented if there is any damage we’d need to put right. But our neighbours ignored all correspondence about it meaning by law we had to follow the process of getting them their own surveyor and paying for their surveyor as well as ours. Unfortunately the neighbours bawled him out and refused to engage with him which meant it took a lot of his time (and our money!).

Again thank you all, really really appreciate it x

But I'm not being a twat at all. And I won't be having an extension built either!

@Walkerby i still don’t understand the party wall thing (sorry!).

I thought that the surveyor writes to the neighbour giving them time to respond and if they don’t you just crack on?

Just wondering if you have been too accommodating?

Sorry..pressed post too quickly...
I'm just saying, if you are the one with the building works, please be very, very kind and thoughtful to your neighbours.

@FuzzyPuffling before we put in for planning permission and were talking with them about it we even offered to send them away on holiday for a few days when the noisiest work of the foundations was being done! And we texted them throughout to warn them of any particularly noisy work and saying sorry for the disturbance. I agree building work is far from ideal for neighbours but extensions are a fact of life on a street of family homes and it’s down to how you approach it. I would never expect our neighbours to just ‘put up and shut up’, we tried to be as considerate of them as poss the whole way through.

I like @Karaokehell2021 suggestion. Have a faux telephone conversation in the garden about how unpleasant it has become living there and how you plan to move out and turn the current house into an air bnb.
Perhaps mention the hot tub you plan to install and of course the outdoor speaker system and how in-demand it will be since very few place tolerate smokers but it doesn't bother you bc you're well shot of the place.
Our neighbours have become unbearable and nasty to us and our children. I think being home for such a long time has tested everyone. But there is no reasoning with people when they are angry and possibly unstable.
Good luck

I don’t think you need to be ‘very very kind and thoughtful’. Just reasonable. Both my neighbours had extensions and I just expected them to keep to reasonable behaviour (builders working to reasonable hours, no mess in my garden etc).

To @FuzzyPuffling

@tallduckandhandsome yes they can ignore it but legally you can’t then crack on until you have followed the legal process of appointing and paying for their own surveyor. It’s called ‘dissent’.

Thanks, I don’t think people on my street bother with that! I hope this doesn’t mean their extensions are illegal!

You can state on most deliveries that should you not be there it is to be left at X so do that. As others have said extensions are very disruptive to neighbours and I imagine at their age they are there all the time are potentially short of time together enjoying their house and didn't want your extension nor to talk to you about it. That's pretty standard not speaking to you makes it easier to object doesn't it. What would they achieve speaking to you I doubt you would have changed your plans for them and that's fine.

And a dog barking for 5 seconds they must be glued at tbe fence ready to hit. Unlikely.

If you really want peace with them why not next time ask to speak to them and discuss all of this, hello every now and then isn't going to do it.

@Marchitectmummy bad advice. Time to ignore the fuckers.