Men in lingerie shops

[Woolywolf]

I went to bravissimo yesterday with my 15 year old daughter. The fitting rooms are downstairs and there are some sofas where you wait for your fitting. There were 3 men sat on the sofas (husbands/partners waiting for their wives/girlfriends I think). One of them has 2 kids with him. So the women waiting to use the fitting rooms were standing in a queue next to these men.

This was the first time my daughter had been to a bra fitting at this store and I could tell she was feeling uncomfortable telling her size to the staff and holding a handful of bras in front of these men. I may have been being paranoid but I think I caught one of the men looking a bit too hard at what all the women in the queue were trying on, but otherwise they just seemed like normal/harmless dads.

But am I being unreasonable thinking it was a bit inappropriate for men/kids to be waiting outside lingerie changing rooms. If my husband had been there, he probably would have taken himself off to a different shop while we went to a bra shop as he obviously wouldn’t need to be there. If we had younger kids with us, I’d ask him to take them someplace more interesting instead of having them waiting/taking up seats in an underwear shop asking loud questions about bras as one of the kids was.

I know there’s no shame in shopping for bras/it shouldn’t be embarrassing it just seems a bit unnecessary for men to be there. I don’t know if I would have noticed/cared if my teen hadn’t been with me, who was already a bit nervous about having a bra fitting.

Don't be so silly and defensive.

Absolutely zero defensiveness here.

Then he' arranged to meet her in half an hour and he didn't spend that half hour rummaging around the women's underwear, staring at female shoppers, either.

No, funnily enough, neither did my father.

I think this thoughtless planning. I definitely would not like to announce my bra size to the shop. All very well saying its nothing yo be embarrassed about- get real women have body confidence issues. YANBU

Maybe I’m just weird but when I shop for underwear, I like to do it without having to dodge around men. I find it weird.

Even when you're just looking at the rails, grabbing something on a hanger and taking it straight to the till? It's very common for women to go in to the men's undies sections and have a look through - presumably buying for husbands/boyfriends/sons, but then you see threads on here where women buy clothes for themselves from the men's sections for whatever reason, as they have every right to do so.

I agree in the actual fitting room area - and any good store should have a private area where women/girls can speak to a fitter/sales assistant out of the earshot of anybody else; but if we go down the line of insisting that 'only women are allowed to buy women's clothes' and 'only men are allowed to buy men's clothes', I think it's a slippery slope.

Some couples do like (or need) to buy clothes for each other - whether they end up choosing wisely or not. Some people will be buying for their children, elderly and/or vulnerable relatives.

Yes, it makes most sense for girls needing bra fittings to go with a female relative/friend if one is available, but if we're just talking about a single/SAH dad picking up a new pack of pants for his daughter? Do we assume him to be a pervert and thus, by extension, sexualise a perfectly normal everyday garment worn by girls?

Also, by reinforcing the 'male clothes' and 'female clothes' angle, we're also buying into the very flawed modern message that a man cannot be a 'feminine' man, nor a woman a 'masculine/butch' woman. We're back to supporting the "Well, John, if you sometimes like dressing in 'women's' clothes, that must mean that you ARE actually a woman" stereotype - and we all know where that can lead.

I 100% agree that women should have protected, safe sex-defined spaces (and the same for men), but I don't see how you can say that an open shop floor containing loads of hanging fabric qualifies as that in anyway.

@pleasedonttextmyman

LyingWitchInTheWardrobe

Or, will you just blame the woman that your partner is checking out?
talk about yourself, but if MY partner was checking women out, he could find much better places than the sofa of a lingerie store.

I've lost count of the number of times when I did used to use changing rooms in shops, to open the door/curtain and find a man there, looking me up and down, sizing me up and just generally appraising me.
😂 yes dear.

Oh I see. You think that was a boasting or self-aggrandising post and you want to cut me down to size? It wasn't. A pair of boobs attached to a hockey stick or a traffic cone is enough to attract attention from swivel-eyed men. I'm sure I'm not on my own there. This is the type of man who gawks at school girls in uniform. Lots of 'happily' partnered men do that too but, of course I'm lying.

That's my lived experience and I really don't care whether randoms like you believe me or not.

a group on a stag night heckling and giving marks, you'd have a point.

Bored husbands or dads sitting down OUTSIDE the changing rooms and waiting to get on with their day?

It's just being silly now.

I think it's a thing these days, as in lots of men seem to accompany their partners when they are shopping for clothes/underwear etc, they either don't mind, or are actually told to be there. It was not usually a thing years ago,as men didn't like hanging about in those situations,where women were faffing around trying on clothes etc. But now, seats are usually provided for various family members who get in the way of others.

They are waiting outside the changing rooms! Do none of you go shopping with your dp's? We go to men's shops and I wait outside the changing room too. It's been a while, not been since feb 20.

LyingWitchInTheWardrobe

no need to be so prickly, if you believe it's your experience, no one is denying it.

No one is denying that your own husband is of course different.

@pleasedonttextmyman No need to be so snide. Your experience is different to @LyingWitchInTheWardrobebut but that doesn't invalidate her experience. There are plenty of posts on this thread, including ones from lingerie shop staff (!) that support her experience.

YANBU OP
Fully agree with you. Just no need for it.

Ive got to be honest, I hate it. They trail around after their wives/partners obviously bored out their minds and Ive never understood why men need to be there at all. They are usually always hanging about in the exact area of underwear that I want to look at.My husband will not go near a women's lingerie department and he has said he would not want to make women uncomfortable. Im old enough to go shopping for my own underwear. However, I do appreciate what a previous poster said that it may be difficult for a single dad/guardian. Certainly I know men who have brought up daughters alone. I was a very self conscious teen and I would not have appreciated these men being there. Why can't the wives/ partners leave them in a cafe with a newspaper and a cuppa?I hate shopping with my husband unless it's really necessary.

@BlueSurfer well said! Maybe I'm lucky but I do not live in permanent fear of anything with a penis (very lucky considering I have a teenage son). We cannot judge every man on the actions of a few. They were sat waiting for a woman using the service provided by Bravissimo, I assume they were not sat in the cubicle that you/your daughter wanted to use? Maybe just maybe they thought sitting on the seating provided was socially acceptable 🤔 Most decent men don't walk around thinking every woman/girl they come into contact with is going to fear them...what a bloody sad world it would be if they had to think like that

I never said that men should be banned. I appreciate a minority do have a valid reason to be there. I just wish the rest had the social awareness to realise that they don’t need to be there, and there presence may make women uncomfortable so it may be more considerate/tactful to wait elsewhere.
Exactly, fine if they are a parent or carer who needs to be there, but they should have the sense to know it's a women's space.

You'd probably get further with the shop manager - pointing out men waiting on the sofa in it's current position was off putting to your teenage DD and possibly other women.

Possibly having staff wait till in changing room to ask bra sizes may also be something they'd like to considered.

I had large breasts early in life they do come with unwanted male attention and gazes - which doesn't help body confidence - and I've had women who never had the problems I've had insist it's all in my head - yet talk to other women with large breasts and they've had usually exactly the same experiences.

This is a shop catering for larger breasts perhaps they need to think about their polices a bit more.

I mainly buy bras for my two DDs and myself on-line now - it's just easier for me and my teens seem to prefer it done that way and there many guides available for measuring - nerarest bravissimo I'd have to travel to next city to find so would expect a pleasant experince as possible.

You don't have to live in fear of a penis to think that most nice blokes would think, "Oh those women will want a bit of privacy - I'll move away from the bra-fitting room."

Some people can't let their partners out their sight. It's so weird. My DH wouldn't be hanging around the shop whilst women and girls were browsing and trying on underwear. He would browse in another shop or something.

DH would be non plussed if I asked him to go bra shopping with me.

Exactly, fine if they are a parent or carer who needs to be there, but they should have the sense to know it's a women's space.

Often their woman invited them there though...

Weird how many posters need their husband’s opinion. Do husbands even have an opinion on bras? I wouldn’t ever think to ask mine what he thought, if I like it and I think it looks good on me I buy it.

Maybe I'm lucky but I do not live in permanent fear of anything with a penis (very lucky considering I have a teenage son). We cannot judge every man on the actions of a few.

Yes, you are lucky. Some people do live in fear of men, because of the way they have been treated by men in the past.
The problem is that we can’t tell by looking which men are the bad guys and which ones are the good guys, and some of us have learned that if you assume they’re good then you end up getting hurt. If you assume they’re bad then all that might be hurt is a man’s feelings.

but if we're just talking about a single/SAH dad picking up a new pack of pants for his daughter?

Wouldn't he/she just get it online - she isn't trying them on for fit.

[quote HundredMilesAnHour]**@pleasedonttextmyman* No need to be so snide. Your experience is different to @LyingWitchInTheWardrobebut* but that doesn't invalidate her experience. There are plenty of posts on this thread, including ones from lingerie shop staff (!) that support her experience.[/quote]
what are the chances of assault from a man accompanying his wife or daughter in a lingerie changing room, really?

cogee, why can't you leave the changing room to show your husband whatever it is you've tried on?

I do. He is waits outside. Usually sitting on the seating provided for that purpose. Like the sofas in Bravissimo.

However, even waiting outside appears to be a no no to some.

@SchrodingersMat

Weird how many posters need their husband’s opinion. Do husbands even have an opinion on bras? I wouldn’t ever think to ask mine what he thought, if I like it and I think it looks good on me I buy it.

yes, it's weird, that some people care about their partner's appearance.

We get it, you are not interested by the physical aspect. That probably makes you superior. Well done you.

Weird how many posters need their husband’s opinion. Do husbands even have an opinion on bras.

They do, if they are allowed to have one.