Men in lingerie shops

[Woolywolf]

I went to bravissimo yesterday with my 15 year old daughter. The fitting rooms are downstairs and there are some sofas where you wait for your fitting. There were 3 men sat on the sofas (husbands/partners waiting for their wives/girlfriends I think). One of them has 2 kids with him. So the women waiting to use the fitting rooms were standing in a queue next to these men.

This was the first time my daughter had been to a bra fitting at this store and I could tell she was feeling uncomfortable telling her size to the staff and holding a handful of bras in front of these men. I may have been being paranoid but I think I caught one of the men looking a bit too hard at what all the women in the queue were trying on, but otherwise they just seemed like normal/harmless dads.

But am I being unreasonable thinking it was a bit inappropriate for men/kids to be waiting outside lingerie changing rooms. If my husband had been there, he probably would have taken himself off to a different shop while we went to a bra shop as he obviously wouldn’t need to be there. If we had younger kids with us, I’d ask him to take them someplace more interesting instead of having them waiting/taking up seats in an underwear shop asking loud questions about bras as one of the kids was.

I know there’s no shame in shopping for bras/it shouldn’t be embarrassing it just seems a bit unnecessary for men to be there. I don’t know if I would have noticed/cared if my teen hadn’t been with me, who was already a bit nervous about having a bra fitting.

@pleasedonttextmyman

Blimey, the excuses that some women will give so that their men can be present in women's space. Pathetic!

I am stunned at women ranting that a SHOP is a "safe" and "woman only" space. What the heck do you do in there that you think it's a woman safe zone?!

Reminds me of posters outraged that some stories goes on other sites, while MN is a "safe" and "private" space You know, 119 million unique and anonymous users 😂

But surely a space in the shop for bra fittings should be a safe space for women only. You say SHOP as though you're talking about a supermarket. This topic is about shops where women and girls go to have bras fitted.

@feelingmehtoday

I'm now just here for the adjectives used to describe men who go shopping ... Dopey, gormless, being "dragged" .... it's making my Sunday evening pass quicker

This made me laugh

@feelingmehtoday me too lol

@pleasedonttextmyman thought so.

Going back to assumption this is a storm in a c cup

I used to hate this as a teenager. I had massive boobs and was hugely self conscious (particularly as it was grown men who seemed fascinated with them rather than other 14 year old boys). In one shop a man was there with his wife...
Looking at me. I loudly told my mum that I hated men being in underwear departments, there was no need for it, surely their wives could manage to shop for bras on their own. My mum was mortified

OP I presume you’ll be teaching your daughter to stay well away from the male underwear section in M&S because men need privacy when choosing their underwear? My 11yr old DS would be distraught if your DD witnessed him buying pants.

@edwinbear

OP I presume you’ll be teaching your daughter to stay well away from the male underwear section in M&S because men need privacy when choosing their underwear? My 11yr old DS would be distraught if your DD witnessed him buying pants.

Men’s underwear hasn’t been fetishised in the same way as women’s. It’s not remotely similar. However if men had underwear fittings where they discussed with an assistant how their penis was being supported in underwear and if it was spilling out/too tight then yes I would give them privacy to do this fitting and expect other women including my daughter to stay out of earshot to be considerate of this private activity.

I assume from some of these completely ridiculous comments that most pps have never actually been to Bravissimo? It really isn't a shop where a dad would " grab a pack of pants". It is a shop set up to cater to women with large breasts. Nothing else.

My 13 yo DD refused to go in there. I have never been embarrassed around underwear but she is. She didn't get it from me. She was mortified to be measured, really didn't want the assistant to look at her in the bra, wouldn't let me wait outside but I had to look at the wall... fortunately the only people being allowed to go downstairs to the fitting area were those being fitted. Everyone else was kept upstairs in the main shop.

I have also walked out of M&S after finding men hanging about in the way of everything I went in to look at, as other people have said. There are so many women seemingly incapable of going anywhere on their own.

Ok so we have all been teenage girls. How many of us have been leered at, been made uncomfortable by comments even groped by men? 50%, 60%, 70% or more? Has it happened to you?
Yes some of the these men will be sad old loners but I imagine many of them will be husbands and fathers. Do you imagine these men will be looking away in bra shops or studying sport on their phones?
Or is it possible they will be leering at young girls holding bras?

The problem is that everyone is thinking of their own nice boyfriend or husband who wouldn't stare or make women feel uncomfortable but unfortunately not every man is like that. Just one look at the relationships forum on here shows how many creeps there are around. And just a walk down the street when you're fifteen tells you that, too.

I get that most people would be ok with men waiting outside, but if even a small minority of women/girls are uncomfortable with it isnt that reason enough for men to avoid being there? Since there is no advantage to anyone of them being there-they can’t see what their partner is trying on and waiting is (hopefully) boring for them. So they may as well wait elsewhere unless they are a carer.

I think this could be solved by the sofas being upstairs away from the queue for the waiting rooms (but then women would have to stand and queue instead of having a sofa). Or a sign saying “waiting area for customers waiting for a fitting only” or “women only apart from parents/carers”.
I can’t imagine anyone would be that disappointed that they/their partner couldn’t sit outside a bra fitting room. Really what would they be missing out on? And it would stop (a small minority) of girls being uncomfortable.

Or they could have 2 separate sofas.... one in the changing rooms for customers and one outside earshot for men/ kids /
Friends to wait

Even if just one teenage girl is made to feel uncomfortable isn't that one too many

[quote Mockolate]@feelingmehtoday me too lol[/quote]

Hyperbole heaven

@Fairyliz from the age of 12 onwards I was always having grown men stare at my breasts. Made me pretty uncomfortable. At 14 I was with my older sister and she started randomly laughing, I asked what was so funny and she told me a woman had just slapped her husband for staring at my breasts.

Not all men ... blah blah blah. But enough of them to understand why a teenager would hate men lounging about outside the changing room while she is discussing her breasts and having an assistant pop in and out with bras to try on.

How many of us have been leered at, been made uncomfortable by comments even groped by men? 50%, 60%, 70% or more? Has it happened to you?

Yes some of the these men will be sad old loners but I imagine many of them will be husbands and fathers.

I don't even know how to respond to this stupidity. Literally stunned into silence.

joins hyperbole party

Ok so we have all been teenage girls. How many of us have been leered at, been made uncomfortable by comments even groped by men? 50%, 60%, 70% or more? Has it happened to you?
Yes some of the these men will be sad old loners but I imagine many of them will be husbands and fathers. Do you imagine these men will be looking away in bra shops or studying sport on their phones?
Or is it possible they will be leering at young girls holding bras?

Actually it's closer to 80/90 percent of women and girls who have been harassed.

2/3 of school girls are harassed on the way to school and in school.

So that's a good chuck.of the female population tbh.

So either all these women amd girls have met the same small handful of sad old loners who can be in several places all.at once 24 hiurs a day across several time soave and time.dimensions or some of your husbands sons and fathers and brothers aren't as nice as you think.

Anyway I suggest you take it up with the sad old loners who have made women and girls feel.wary of the male.presence at times where they feel vulnerable like having a bra fit and discussing their bodies. It's on them. Not the op and her dd.

@MrsMillhouse

Or they could have 2 separate sofas.... one in the changing rooms for customers and one outside earshot for men/ kids / Friends to wait

I think they’d need a sign saying the one in the changing room is for women only. I think it’s already pretty clear from the layout/feel of the shop that the downstairs is really just for women getting fitted (the sign upstairs says something like “find your perfect fit this way”) yet this area still had men waiting who apparently couldn’t read the tone of the environment and see that it was heavily geared towards women doing something quite private. I think if it was busy and the upstairs sofa was full, these tone deaf men would still use the downstairs one unless told not too.

Well you may not think DS should be embarrassed about buying pants in front of women OP, in the same way that I don’t find buying bras embarrassing. But I assure you, he does. And he’d far rather not have the conversation about whether he wants briefs/boxers/trunks in front of your DD. He’s a runner, so actually the ‘support’ his underwear gives him is a consideration and he doesn’t want that discussion in front of women either.

@Woolywolf a sign definately needs to be there. And a word from the staff if they ignore the sign.

So I guess by your definition, he is in ‘the small minority of men who don’t want women there. So you and your DD should avoid.

@edwinbear

Well you may not think DS should be embarrassed about buying pants in front of women OP, in the same way that I don’t find buying bras embarrassing. But I assure you, he does. And he’d far rather not have the conversation about whether he wants briefs/boxers/trunks in front of your DD. He’s a runner, so actually the ‘support’ his underwear gives him is a consideration and he doesn’t want that discussion in front of women either.

Why would OP’s 15 year old dd be hanging around your 11 year old son in the M&S mens’ underwear section? Ridiculous comparison.

Very bizarre comparison

@tallduckandhandsome possibly because her dad/brother is choosing pants? i.e exactly the same reason these men were in a bra shop.

Curious who these men are that don't mind hanging around lingerie changing rooms while their partners try on underwear. They must be a rare breed. Certainly can't imagine calling my DH over to assess the appeal of my underwear!