To wonder why MN is so unpleasant about SAHMs?

[crinklyfoil]

While I know there are cases when women aren’t married and don’t own property and are in a vulnerable position, I’m not talking about posters who are concerned about women.

I’m talking about posters who believe that SAHMs have no say in finances, should ‘get a job’ and are somehow lazy.

A FT childcare place costs around £800 a month. If you have more than one child, realistically for many women, ‘getting a job’ will mean working at a loss. Not to mention problems with shift work at the lower paid end of the spectrum (retail work and care work.)

Is it really so awful that having a SAHM might just work really well for some families? That some women might thoroughly enjoy it and that it’s part of a mutually beneficial relationship in the context of the whole family?

Or should everyone just get a job, regardless of how miserable and poor it makes the whole family?!

@AllTheUsernamesAreAlreadyTaken

Why do you assume SAHM gave up their careers against their will?! I don't that's my point, but that's what some posters say, not that they were threatened to stop, but they claiming that they had no choice because of x, y and z, when these reasons are overcome by many working parents.

Perhaps it’s because any other reason is seen as insulting to working mums so it’s kinder to use this line of reasoning.

I loved my job (teaching in inner London) and I was good at it, but it was always hard to manage with my autoimmune condition and neurodiversity. I was exhausted and wired at the same time as I always had to be right at the top of my game to survive in that environment. It did make me ill. Losing a parent made me question why I did it, as it felt like I was playing the role of someone doing that job rather than it being me. I'll use the word exhausted again because I was constantly fighting it.

DH works in the arts and his job is more vocational than mine. Also more lucrative. His job is about 70% WFH except for days when he has to be in studios or theatres. He would do this job if it paid half as much, because he did, years ago back when I was the main breadwinner. And he won't retire, because his job to him is like breathing. Mine wasn't.

Then DC was diagnosed with a neurodisability and it was obvious who would be the working parent and who would be the carer, because one of us earned twice as much as the other. And one of us was utterly burnt out.

I am tired caring for my child, it's over and above regular parenting, but I do feel like me again.

The only concerns I have in this whole palaver are that women whether SAHM or WOAM are protected financially, know what they should do to maintain their pensions, share of house and savings.

All of us have different circumstances, different support networks, etc. Some of us want to be with our DC throughout, some don't. If we want to pay more taxes we can have more affordable childcare. I'd go along with that.

I don’t get why everyone is so concerned with the money aspect…if a husband and wife (partners, whatever) have decided that all finances are shared finances then that’s between them.

If a husband and wife (partner, whatever) have decided not to share finances then that’s up to them.

DH and I have always put everything into a joint bank account, even before I was a SAHM.

You can’t tell me we’re wrong for doing it or viewing it as our money because it a choice we have made for our life. Personally, I wouldn’t want a marriage where we were counting pennies against each other (especially if one earns significantly more) but that’s up to you because it’s your life. I’m not going to tell you otherwise.

I don’t get why everyone is so concerned with the money aspect

Because it's important and, sadly, can be open to abuse.

And because it can, sometimes, lead to somewhat hypocritical exposition about how shallow, materialistic and immoral it is to lay respect in earning money, from someone who has chosen to rely entirely on another person earning money.

I can’t believe any woman would marry or have children with a man who thought of his earnings as “his money.” Imagine! What, so he is willing to share his DNA with you to bring new human beings into this world and all the responsibility that comes with that, yet he can’t share his bank account! Seriously? Does he not think that ship has sailed? What kind of madness is that? If I even got a whiff of this attitude from a man, alarm bells would be going off left, right and centre. That is evidence of deep-seated psychological disturbance, as far as I’m concerned. I would literally run for the hills. Why any woman, working or not, would accept that from a man, I have no idea. And no, when is was married but still working pre-kids, I certainly didn’t think of my earnings as “my money.” What is the actual point of that - how tedious. It all goes the same way anyway in the long-run.

@Mummyford

I'm curious whether any women on this thread are or have been the main breadwinner for a period of time or an ongoing basis? If so, did you consider it your money?

I was for nearly 5 years and I know I didn't.

I was for around five years too, this was even before we were married, and were renting together. Even back then it was our money.

The problem about “ the money” is not about who it belongs to when you’re together but who it belongs to when you’re not together. And what you’re entitled to is not necessarily what you get as many of the women on the Relationship board can attest.

My husband is my husband - we have 4 children and 20 years shared experiences; 4 children and everything we have built up together. He’s not some random flatmate. It’s not a student houseshare fgs - “Oh let’s split this bill - you pay £x, but don’t forget you owe me for petrol so add that on.” Blimey. Life is too short.

@cosima8

I can’t believe any woman would marry or have children with a man who thought of his earnings as “his money.” Imagine! What, so he is willing to share his DNA with you to bring new human beings into this world and all the responsibility that comes with that, yet he can’t share his bank account! Seriously? Does he not think that ship has sailed? What kind of madness is that? If I even got a whiff of this attitude from a man, alarm bells would be going off left, right and centre. That is evidence of deep-seated psychological disturbance, as far as I’m concerned. I would literally run for the hills. Why any woman, working or not, would accept that from a man, I have no idea. And no, when is was married but still working pre-kids, I certainly didn’t think of my earnings as “my money.” What is the actual point of that - how tedious. It all goes the same way anyway in the long-run.

In fairness if my partner didn't work I would not be happy to subside him, unless it was through ill health or being made redundant or whatever- which we discussed before having children. As long as both parties understand its an agreement and whoever actually has the money paid to them could change their mind at any point then all good, but some seem to think that no matter what happens its always shared money no matter what happens which isn't the case.

One of my close friends is going through a bitter divorce & it's opened my eyes quite a bit. He is fighting her for every penny & he's gone from being a very hands on involved father to wanting to pay the absolute minimum. I would never have expected him to act like this. He's very much taken the it's my money approach which is sad as it will impact the dc. My friend is a p/t GP but he was the higher earner.

@Mummyford

I'm curious whether any women on this thread are or have been the main breadwinner for a period of time or an ongoing basis? If so, did you consider it your money?

I was for nearly 5 years and I know I didn't.

I don't know if this is helpful or not: I was the main breadwinner when I was married and tbh my ex husband's reluctance to share the load domestically was one of the major reasons I decided to divorce him.

He seemed to feel that although I out-earned him by a factor of over 3 to 1 and paid all the mortgage that it was my responsibility to do pick-ups and drop-offs, all childcare and the vast bulk of the domestic labour. It was hard to get a rational answer as to why he thought this was the case and it basically boiled down to "because I'm the man and in my business its seen as soft to ask to leave work early" etc.

Would I have remained with him if he were doing much more of the heavy lifting at home? Possibly.

When the roles are reversed it tends to be the case that women who remain at home pick up the majority of the domestic and child-related care almost by default.

At the heart of this entire argument, in my view, is the reluctance of men both working and non-working to step up domestically.

It would make life so much easier for everyone if they would. Working women would be less exhausted from the "double shift" syndrome. SAHMs would feel more able to get back into the labour force and those who chose not to return to work at all would feel more supported generally. The children would witness a genuine partnership between their parents. Everyone wins.

I think a lot of people on this thread have picked the wrong target. If there's a villain of this piece on either side its the men who have come to believe that domestic work is not their responsibility.

I know this sounds obvious but I feel like we have become so wrapped up in the question of the woman's role either in the home or out of it we forget that so many of the challenges women face are due to men's shortcomings.

I'm curious whether any women on this thread are or have been the main breadwinner for a period of time or an ongoing basis? If so, did you consider it your money?

Family money - I was the main earner for around 15 years

@imamule

One of my close friends is going through a bitter divorce & it's opened my eyes quite a bit. He is fighting her for every penny & he's gone from being a very hands on involved father to wanting to pay the absolute minimum. I would never have expected him to act like this. He's very much taken the it's my money approach which is sad as it will impact the dc. My friend is a p/t GP but he was the higher earner.

Why are they splitting up?

Absolutely cosima

@Mummyford

I'm curious whether any women on this thread are or have been the main breadwinner for a period of time or an ongoing basis? If so, did you consider it your money?

I was for nearly 5 years and I know I didn't.

I was for a period of 3 years while my husband did his second degree. It was absolutely shared money, as it is now that my husband is the sole earner and I'm the SAHM/home educator.

@Mummyford

I'm curious whether any women on this thread are or have been the main breadwinner for a period of time or an ongoing basis? If so, did you consider it your money?

I was for nearly 5 years and I know I didn't.

Yes For three years before we married/ had kids while he set up his business. 1 year while his business was closed due to COVID.

It was always our money.

don’t get why everyone is so concerned with the money aspect

Because its one of the reasons I and many others prefer to WOH so if asked we might respond.
I would never give up paid work having seen my DM financially abused.

It may be considered a joint asset if in a shared account but if someone decides to divert their salary to their own account there is nothing that can be done.
No its not right but it happens and Ive seen it happen.
So one reason but not the only one.
I also feel its my responsibility to provide for my DC as much as its DHs responsibilty to do his share of domestic chores and Child care

@whistlers seems he had the classic midlife crisis, which I assumed was a myth. Turned 40, lost a parent, had a fling. Initially he desperately wanted to save the marriage but my friend was resolute. I think he's punishing her for not forgiving him. He also has an incredibly successful tech business & in the last few yrs the hard work came to fruition which I think has made him more entitled. And she supported him in his 20s.

We are all a bit shell shocked as it's the first proper divorce (with kids) in our friendship group & we all know each other from either uni or where we grew up (it really is a small world!). He won't even listen to any of his friends in the circle.

@cosima8

I can’t believe any woman would marry or have children with a man who thought of his earnings as “his money.” Imagine! What, so he is willing to share his DNA with you to bring new human beings into this world and all the responsibility that comes with that, yet he can’t share his bank account! Seriously? Does he not think that ship has sailed? What kind of madness is that? If I even got a whiff of this attitude from a man, alarm bells would be going off left, right and centre. That is evidence of deep-seated psychological disturbance, as far as I’m concerned. I would literally run for the hills. Why any woman, working or not, would accept that from a man, I have no idea. And no, when is was married but still working pre-kids, I certainly didn’t think of my earnings as “my money.” What is the actual point of that - how tedious. It all goes the same way anyway in the long-run.

I think you are barking up the wrong tree here. While it may start off as shared its very common for financial abuse to start after the marriage and children are born and the woman is in a vulnerable position. They hardly go " oh yes Im going to financially abuse you " at the start do they They wait until women are trapped, vulnerable and have no income.

I understand people are discussing the money aspect regarding different view points but people seem reluctant to accept that some marriages see salaries as a household income rather than separate finances.

I didn’t even realise this was a thing until a few years ago…if one person earned £30k and the other £100k than would you always have a mortgage, etc affordable for the person on £30k?

If the answer is no then finances aren’t as separate as a lot of people are making out.

I love DH, I know he wouldn’t be a complete arse if we separated. I know that I’d be okay through savings, etc but I’m not constantly planning, thinking about it like it sounds some posters are.

I don’t really want to give up a life I love and that works best for our family because we might split up in years to come….it sounds exhausting having to think like that all the time!

Something I have noticed is that in all the couples I’ve known whose relationships have not just gone wrong, but ended with huge amounts of bitterness and anger and misery for everyone concerned, the one thing they all have in common is that there were significant levels of disparity in income/assets/perceived contributions. Negotiations move straight away to “you owe me”, “I’ve sacrificed xyz for you”, “you’ve leached off me”, “you’ve taken from me” and it gets worse and worse. Whereas where both people have something to protect and something of their own (e.g, a source of income) to walk away with, it tends to be much less horrible. Not saying that disparity was always the reason for the breakdown, but it always comes to the surface very, very quickly when it goes wrong. The resentment on both sides can’t have been that far from the surface, it doesn’t come from nowhere.

@IceCreamAndCandyfloss

But it's not someone else's money. It's our money

My employer must be doing it wrong then as my salary, contract and payslip all only have my name on. Not to mention DH does none of my job and likewise I don’t do his.

Exactly. Women insist it’s family money, until 40% of marriages end in divorce and the man walks off to continue his career, while the woman ends up paying the price of having given up hers.

@SAHMavectwinnies

I understand people are discussing the money aspect regarding different view points but people seem reluctant to accept that some marriages see salaries as a household income rather than separate finances.

I didn’t even realise this was a thing until a few years ago…if one person earned £30k and the other £100k than would you always have a mortgage, etc affordable for the person on £30k?

If the answer is no then finances aren’t as separate as a lot of people are making out.

I love DH, I know he wouldn’t be a complete arse if we separated. I know that I’d be okay through savings, etc but I’m not constantly planning, thinking about it like it sounds some posters are.

I don’t really want to give up a life I love and that works best for our family because we might split up in years to come….it sounds exhausting having to think like that all the time!

Not exhausting at all . I am happy and content that if we either split or DH died then I would be fully protected financially. Its not a constant worry, its taken care of. I hardly think about it but my DMs experience shaped my decisions plus its only a small part of it. I love my job and wanted to share childcare and domestic tasks equally being the other reasons.

@SAHMavectwinnies

I understand people are discussing the money aspect regarding different view points but people seem reluctant to accept that some marriages see salaries as a household income rather than separate finances.

I didn’t even realise this was a thing until a few years ago…if one person earned £30k and the other £100k than would you always have a mortgage, etc affordable for the person on £30k?

If the answer is no then finances aren’t as separate as a lot of people are making out.

I love DH, I know he wouldn’t be a complete arse if we separated. I know that I’d be okay through savings, etc but I’m not constantly planning, thinking about it like it sounds some posters are.

I don’t really want to give up a life I love and that works best for our family because we might split up in years to come….it sounds exhausting having to think like that all the time!

Surely this is where life insurance comes in?

Many threads on the relationship board by stay at home mums who have dedicated their lives to DH & DC only to be left financially and high and dry when dickhead DH leaves them. It's scary viewing tbh.