To wonder why MN is so unpleasant about SAHMs?

[crinklyfoil]

While I know there are cases when women aren’t married and don’t own property and are in a vulnerable position, I’m not talking about posters who are concerned about women.

I’m talking about posters who believe that SAHMs have no say in finances, should ‘get a job’ and are somehow lazy.

A FT childcare place costs around £800 a month. If you have more than one child, realistically for many women, ‘getting a job’ will mean working at a loss. Not to mention problems with shift work at the lower paid end of the spectrum (retail work and care work.)

Is it really so awful that having a SAHM might just work really well for some families? That some women might thoroughly enjoy it and that it’s part of a mutually beneficial relationship in the context of the whole family?

Or should everyone just get a job, regardless of how miserable and poor it makes the whole family?!

[quote MissChanandlerBong22]@SparrowNest

I’ll see if I can find one. They’re usually threads started by working mothers about their plans for putting their children into nursery, and they result in a pile-on.[/quote]
Ah, yeah I agree that’s unpleasant. I guess it’s just that I’m not clicking those very much as they’re not relevant to my situation.

There was one poster over lockdown who came onto a thread when working mums were discussing the pain of working & juggling schoolwork who believed "you shouldn't have kids if you can't look after them" because of course we should all have predicted that schools would close!

@SparrowNest

This one’s a pretty good example. The first few pages of comments are fairly balanced but later on it gets absolutely vile.

‘Why did you bother having children’ comes up a good 10-15 times!

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/4168090-To-send-DC-to-nursery-8am-6pm

I think this thread was provoked by the thread that got taken down by MN because the anti-SAHM nonsense got too much. The OP didn’t even specifically post about SAH or anything to do with it . It was such a strange read.

@sst1234

Like others said, everyone is free to make their own choices and not need to justify it. But calling it a job to raise children really is stretching it and somewhat defensive. A job is one where you are answerable to a boss, a business or your clients (if self employed). Not many people are answerable to their kids for maintaining a standard of parenting and fired if they don’t maintain it. Humans are biologically hard wired to raise children to continue the human race, it’s not some rare skill that only a select few have.

You have not met my 3yo.

@cosima8

I think this thread was provoked by the thread that got taken down by MN because the anti-SAHM nonsense got too much. The OP didn’t even specifically post about SAH or anything to do with it . It was such a strange read.

I'd say the going on about IVF by some posters was worse, surprised it wasn't taken down sooner.

@SparrowNest

I guess it’s just that I’m not clicking those very much as they’re not relevant to my situation.

Yes absolutely, our perception is definitely influenced by our own position! I’m far more likely to click on threads started by working mums because it’s relevant to me.

[quote MissChanandlerBong22]@SparrowNest

This one’s a pretty good example. The first few pages of comments are fairly balanced but later on it gets absolutely vile.

‘Why did you bother having children’ comes up a good 10-15 times!

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/4168090-To-send-DC-to-nursery-8am-6pm[/quote]
I’m glad I don’t encounter this sort of stuff in real life. (Though not that many people in my current social circles have kids yet, so maybe it’s coming.)

We’ve made the choice for me to stay home until our youngest is 3 and gets their funded nursery hours. There’s a few different reasons it made sense for us, but I really don’t feel in competition with friends who went back to work. In many cases, their circumstances are so obviously different that I may have made the same choice in their shoes, even though I personally really enjoy being a SAHM and feel grateful it’s been possible.

A big factor for us is that I was already freelance, so there was no job to either return to or lose, and no employer pension I was at risk of losing either. I occasionally do bits of work at the weekends to keep myself somewhat in the game, so I’m not worried that returning to full-time hours will be impossible. Some other mums I know are quite senior in their fields, and clearly had a lot more to lose from taking a several year near total career break.

Similarly, if my husband earned enough that my additional income wouldn’t make that much difference to our standard of living (and he was comfortable with it) I might be tempted to never return to full-time work. Even if it does make a real difference financially, I can see why some women like to be there at the end of the school day and so on.

One woman I know actually spent years prioritising her husband’s career over her own. His work involved moving countries a lot, so she did bits of work on a freelance basis. They had a daughter and he no longer wanted to do the same, dangerous work, and she got a really good job opportunity in a different country, so now she’s the breadwinner and he’s a SAHD. Horses for courses!

The only SAHMs that I have anything against are the ones who have husbands or partners in a 6 figure sum job. Have never worked an hour much less a day in their lives themselves yet they look down their noses at single mums that dont work. Also why are married women refered to as SAHM but single parents are unemployed!!!.

Obviously it's each to their own but I'd hate to be a kept women.
I'd rather have my own money. Yes your husband may be on mega bucks but that doesn't particularly mean he's a scatter the cash, does it. I'd feel like I was asking for pocket money.

I totally forgot the barely disguised glee some posters displayed when women would come on tearing their hair out over how to home school their kids and work at the same time. Some of the posts were ridiculous to the point of being comedy gold.

Although I’m personally keen to go back to the office at least part time, I can see why some others would like to remain WFH for childcare/work life balance reasons. I think some of the ‘you must go back to the office full time’ types are motivated by spite as in ‘how dare you get the opportunity to have coffee after drop off, put the washing on, do drop off and pick ups whilst still making money. It’s only fair that you should suffer in some way!’

@Awwlookatmybabyspider

The only SAHMs that I have anything against are the ones who have husbands or partners in a 6 figure sum job. Have never worked an hour much less a day in their lives themselves yet they look down their noses at single mums that dont work. Also why are married women refered to as SAHM but single parents are unemployed!!!.

I think your are getting your definitions confused. If you are staying home while being supported by the taxpayer, that is unemployed. Being supported by your spouse is a household decision, funded within the household, therefore not unemployment.

It's definitely a job to raise children, whether you are doing that all the time by staying at home or doing it most of the time by sending your kid to nursery 🤷‍♀️

@Awwlookatmybabyspider

Obviously it's each to their own but I'd hate to be a kept women. I'd rather have my own money. Yes your husband may be on mega bucks but that doesn't particularly mean he's a scatter the cash, does it. I'd feel like I was asking for pocket money.

That depends on how you deal with finances as a couple though. We've always split everything regardless of who is earning what. After bills and other outgoings are accounted for we get equal amounts in personal savings and in sole accounts to do with what we please. I don't have to ask for any money, it's already there, it doesn't feel any different to when I was earning.

[quote MissChanandlerBong22]@SparrowNest

This one’s a pretty good example. The first few pages of comments are fairly balanced but later on it gets absolutely vile.

‘Why did you bother having children’ comes up a good 10-15 times!

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/4168090-To-send-DC-to-nursery-8am-6pm[/quote]
People were very unsupportive on this thread.

@Awwlookatmybabyspider
Do we really need to keep using the phrase “kept woman”?

Please see previous comments.

It depends on your partner. He’s not likely to see you as equal if you have to “ask for pocket money” or see you as part of a team.

I’m lucky my DH isn’t like that.

I was home when kids young. You do whats right for your situation. Its best I work now as my mother would have endless errands. I have teens. Husb was happy in early years one at home. But long term it makes the cv have gaps in it.

Yes it's the same old tripe it's been for years on here from some, usually same people
SAHP give their reasons for their choices and it's "snide", "judgmental", "looking down their noses" etc, etc

But a WP is concerned and worried.

Just one of those things OP. It's a shame some women fell the need to devalue other women in that way, says more about them than anything.

Also shows how unhealthy some relationships are, where it is believed acceptable to only gain respect, be valued or be an equal if you bring home money to earn it.

@rubbletrouble

Also shows how unhealthy some relationships are, where it is believed acceptable to only gain respect, be valued or be an equal if you bring home money to earn it.

Like a working parent who supports an entire family?

@DrSbaitso nobody is saying working parents don’t deserve respect, they’re saying the idea that your partner won’t/shouldn’t respect you if you’re a SAHP is toxic.

[quote SparrowNest]@DrSbaitso nobody is saying working parents don’t deserve respect, they’re saying the idea that your partner won’t/shouldn’t respect you if you’re a SAHP is toxic.[/quote]
But if you want to be a SAHP, someone has to earn. There's something off in complaining that it's wrong to place a value of respect on earning money when you are reliant on someone else earning money.

I really dislike it when this debate descends into the idea that earning money is somehow lesser and not important....or not crucial when raising children.

Like a working parent who supports an entire family?

I don't understand your reply?
My point is money doesn't equate to being respected being valued or being an equal in a relationship.

@rubbletrouble

Like a working parent who supports an entire family?

I don't understand your reply?
My point is money doesn't equate to being respected being valued or being an equal in a relationship.

My point is that I find something off in complaining about respect being reliant on earning when you rely on someone else to earn.

Having a SAHP needs to be a dynamic and joint, ongoing decision. If one partner doesn't want to be the sole earner, they shouldn't have to be.

@DrSbaitso again, nobody is saying that earning money isn’t valuable and important for a family. They’re saying it’s not the only way to contribute value to a family.

I hugely respect my husband and value what he does as the current (almost) sole breadwinner. He values that I care for our daughter, do almost all of the cooking and the bulk of the housework, and run various errands that make his/all our lives easier. The arrangement works for us. There’s mutual respect. Valuing one role doesn’t mean devaluing another.