To loathe organised sport and what it does to children?

[AssemblySquare]

There is a back story to this but it’s long and boring. I’m just sick and tired of sport being held up as this wonderful thing that brings people together, but all I have ever seen and experienced is divisiveness, bullying and meanness. I’m so done with it all, especially at grass roots level and at school where most kids seem to get shouted at by PE teachers and coaches taking out their own frustrations that they weren’t quite good enough to make it.

OP, organised sport is the work of the Devil. I used to feign illness, hide in changing rooms etc so as to try to avoid it. And the communal changing rooms, too, where girls would just be vile to one another about their bodies (all girls school in the 80s). "Games" were my most hated bit of school.

YANBU OP

When sports clubs all around the country have to share the “he’s just a little boy” poem regularly you know that ain’t the sport for your child.

@icedcoffees

Why is physical competition important?

Perhaps “important” was the wrong choice of word. “Very useful” would be better. Though that could be said for all the other subject as well.

Why very useful? Well, human society over millennia has relied on a significant number of its members (particularly male) to be extremely fit/strong/healthy, in order to serve in military and armed forces, police, security, fire departments, etc. Basically some key components of any functional civilization.

Physical competition among peers (or between towns/cities etc) is a very effective and fun method to motivate and inspire the continuation of physically excellent humans (particularly during periods of peace).
Of course, breaking a previous personal best or besting an opponent (top of the class!) is also extremely satisfying and pleasurable on an individual level - in the same way it is to be “top” in the class Maths Test.

Ds started in a football club at 4, like all his mates. He used to run around a bit, rarely kicked the ball. At 5, they creamed off the better players for matches against other clubs. Ds wasn't one. All his mates were. He started getting left out in school. The kids in the teams wouldn't let him play football at lunch time cos he wasn't good enough. Ds never played it again.

I need to buy him football boots for high school. I'm dreading hour that's going to go. He does a martial art, and is ok at it. He swims and will cycle for miles. But none of that will help him survive pe in school.

I wonder whether, seeing as so many kids do football out of school, football should be taken off the curriculum and replaced by other activities.

@RampantIvy

And still the parents of children who enjoy sport come here and say how good it is - for their children. How to you make sport enjoyable for those who don't enjoy it or lack ability?

I wish DD was sporty, but she isn't. She now has CFS and any strenuous physical activity makes her even more tired than ever.

She does a lot more walking now that she is at university, but her experience at school has put her off team sport for life.

My son doesn’t really enjoy sports.

He isn’t the most confident of children and due to a childhood illness he has some issues around balance and does lead to him beinf tired quicker than most children. Despite this he attends rugby tots most saturdays, he was nervous at first and would watch or play on his own for the first few sessions. Two years on he still lacks ability, but he has improved hugely, he can now run without falling or being scared of falling, he can catch, he can run around with other children and he recognises he has improved even if he does have wobbly feet. I don’t think he’ll ever be sporty, but its important that hes physically active, so as a parent its my job to make physical activity as enjoyable as possible.

But we're not allowed to tell kids who the best in the class is- as it's demoralising for others. Not only that, you don't get shit for being at sport- but you might for being good academically. I definitely did.

@Tomselleckhaskindeyes, there's lots of info online about Mark Cavendish's past as a competitive ballroom dancer, as a kid/youth. MC is also a good role model as a man comfortable in showing his emotions or talk about his mental health.

I'm reminded of Chris Hoy's dad talking about how bad CH was at MTBing. Hoy's dad talks about waiting around in the increasingly empty carpark for CH to finish ages after the winner. Ditto Mark Cavendish saying how he spent years not winning cycle races.

MC convinced his mum to buy him a suitable bike. Only then he started winning.

CH found he could instead excel at rowing and a specific type of track cycling.

They didn't give up on all organised sport.

ps: my own background is as someone lousy at competitive sport. I still see a lot of potential value in organised sport. It's about finding resilience by facing challenges.

I'm not sporty but 2 DC have played at various clubs and sports for years. Our clubs have been great but the behavior of some away coaches are disgraceful the way they shout at the players, if that was our team I would have left

My experiences in a school environment have seen only the A team players to be shown any worth. This creates a clique of children and parents that stays throughout school life. The kids think they are a cut above the rest. Imagine there being an A team paraded in a classroom academic environment, there would be outrage.

@Anjo2011

My experiences in a school environment have seen only the A team players to be shown any worth. This creates a clique of children and parents that stays throughout school life. The kids think they are a cut above the rest. Imagine there being an A team paraded in a classroom academic environment, there would be outrage.

Well the students who did super well in their GCSES got their name written on a board in the hall (state school)?

@SimonJT do you worry about your son’s self esteem when it gets to the point he isn’t being progressed/selected for the team and some of his friends are? There are lots of ways to enjoy physical activity without the competitive aspect that inevitably tells some children they just aren’t good enough.

@Anjo2011

I do agree with that. The “PE kids” in senior school do get a bit more than their share of attention, especially if, for example, their football, is successful in the county competitions etc. then they’re up in front of the whole school virtually every month.

Either tone down the monthly trophy parades OR put more emphasis on academic achievement/academic improvement at the same time. Physical/sporting achievement is important, but if we’re going to celebrate it to a large degree we should celebrate academic achievement twice as much.

Well the students who did super well in their GCSES got their name written on a board in the hall (state school)?

It didn't happen in my school. However, having your name written on a board in a school hall, isn't really comparable to a select few children being prioritised over everyone else as they excel in sport.

@Whoarethewho

We have a massive obesity crisis caused by lack of exercise and poor eating. We need massively more sport not less.

Well it doesn't help that PE staff do a great job of discouraging it then.

Strictly speaking what's needed is exercise, not sport. All the faff about the exact correct kit, learning stick techniques etc - that doesn't help a kid stay active.

The favourite sport of all kids was dodgeball, when the weather was too foul for outdoor sports. Nobody "forgot their kit" then.

There should be two streams of PE at secondary IMO. For learning particular sports in a skilled fashion, and mindless exercise - dodgeball, aerobics, dancercise etc, with the latter being done in any kit chosen by the kid.

I think it really depends on the sport. I have had a bad experience with two kids playing football. Very competitive, shouty parents, children being branded as successes or failures at a ridiculously young age. But they have also done Parkrun which is far more supportive and friendly. DD's best friend does triathlon, a much smaller community, they all know each other, every achievement is celebrated even if it's just managing to complete the race.

@Anjo2011

My experiences in a school environment have seen only the A team players to be shown any worth. This creates a clique of children and parents that stays throughout school life. The kids think they are a cut above the rest. Imagine there being an A team paraded in a classroom academic environment, there would be outrage.

Very much my experience of secondary school. An all girls school. Very proud of their netball team. I joined at 11 having never played netball in my life. The netball team seemed to have been selected before we started. I have no idea when those try outs were. PE consisted of netball, netball, netball. The girls who were on the team totally dominated, screamed at those of us who weren’t as skilled, PE teachers would separate us into two groups- team and non-team. Non- team were made to do laps while team got more netball coaching. And on the occasions when they had to tick the other boxes with us by doing circuits the team girls were excused because “they have a match coming up” so they would go up to the netball court with the PE teacher and one of the non team girls was designated the role of supervisor for the rest of us. We didn’t do much of our circuits. basically if you weren’t on the netball team you could forget about any sort of PE instruction for the whole 5 years of secondary school.

There is a sense that parent coaches are untouchable because they are volunteers. I have seen plenty of coaches who have no idea how to coach children and are actually damaging them physically and mentally.
Quite often parents don’t speak out because they are ambitious for their own child’s position in the team. These people only root for their own child, not the team.
I have seen many children who are half decent at sport elevated to the godlike status by coaches, teachers, parents and other children. When they don’t fulfil expectations a lot of damage happens.

I hated sport as kid - was crap at it. My 3 sons love it. Their lives have always revolved around it and although there have been incidents that havent been positive - parents shouting, fights on the pitch etc on balance their experience has been massively positive in terms of teamwork, confidence and generating a set of friends outside their schools. I have forgone my weekends in favour of driving them to games and standing in the rain and i would not have it any otherway

Perhaps model resilience in your kids?
@Bryonyshcmyony, although I do agree we should be doing that, it’s a big ask for kids not to be negatively affected when twice a week, FOR YEARS, they are rejected by their peers because they are crap at the team sports on offer. Jeez, that would be a big ask of adults!

I only ever hear this loathing of school sports on Mumsnet anyway so am assuming it's just a trope on here
Try Googling “i hated pe at school”. It’s certainly not just a “MN trope”

Dread and humiliation?! Oh come on. The vast majority of kids who aren't good at it just muck about with their mates
Really? How would you possibly know what the “vast majority of kids” do? Oh how I wish I could've spent my PE lessons mucking about with my mates instead of going through what I did. Might have not left me with a life-long hatred of sport.

This idea that sport builds resilience is complete rubbish for a lot of children. It is quite damaging in the wrong hands.

and although there have been incidents that havent been positive - parents shouting, fights on the pitch etc

It amazes me the absolute shit people will tolerate around their children.

@MotionActivatedDog

Sounds like this happens in many schools. God help you if you are great at swimming but your school isn’t a swimming school, you’ve got no chance. Once the A team is picked there is little or no movement over the entire schooling life.

@Cam77

Absolutely.

@Bryonyshcmyony

This happened at the end of school life, not every pe lesson and opportunity in between.

Schools are always saying how self esteem is so
Important for kids and also how important it is to feel included, yet in many schools this couldn’t be any further from the truth in practice where p.e is concerned. These are the experiences of me/my children.

@MotionActivatedDog

and although there have been incidents that havent been positive - parents shouting, fights on the pitch etc

It amazes me the absolute shit people will tolerate around their children.

Dds football team had a rule that any parent shouting at the kids on the pitch, even "advice" would mean their child wouldn't play in the next match. We had to sign it!

After listening to Matthew Sweet's excellent "A History of Violence" (about school PE) on BBC Radio 4 I was slightly encouraged by the attitudes of the modern PE teachers interviewed in terms of not yelling at the unsporty kids, so I hope things have improved a bit from my schooldays.

The programme arose from a tweet he sent in 2018 asking his followers why PE was the "only subject in which humiliation was seen as part of the learning process", referenced here in his later tweet introducing the programme twitter.com/DrMatthewSweet/status/1094292710591262720.

For me personally - zero sport involvement (participating, watching), yuck.

Jo

My children have done martial arts, gymnastics, dancing and tasters of lots of other sports and never have they been subjected to parents shouting or fights!! I mean come on. Stand up for your children. If you want them to play football then grow a spine and demand a zero tolerance approach to any parents shouting let alone fighting on the pitch! Why would anyone want their DC to be brought up in that culture?