To loathe organised sport and what it does to children?

[AssemblySquare]

There is a back story to this but it’s long and boring. I’m just sick and tired of sport being held up as this wonderful thing that brings people together, but all I have ever seen and experienced is divisiveness, bullying and meanness. I’m so done with it all, especially at grass roots level and at school where most kids seem to get shouted at by PE teachers and coaches taking out their own frustrations that they weren’t quite good enough to make it.

My son has amongst his other technicolour of issues severe Dyspraxia and his OT assessment was the most fascinating thing I ever saw and even the OT that assessed him couldn't quite get her had around. Seeing him trying to just get into position on a balance board was something I can't even describe. His efforts to toss a bean bag into a hoop laid out flat from a marker point was equally incredible.

In short he has all the physical ability and grace of a pissed up newborn giraffe on skates and will never be an Olympic ice skater for sure.

What he did end up getting into, loved and actually found he had a natural affinity for was archery that happened by chance and entire accident.

Got chatty with a fellow military history nerd who was part of Historia Normannis and invited him to go along to one of their training sessions that weekend.

The group has a collective interest and passion for history specifically 12th century, almost all suffered at the hands of bullies at some time or other and train in direct combat using hand made authentic weapons and my son was invited to just have a do with the archery session fire a few see if he liked. He loved it, took to it immediately and although he's not keen to pursue it as an actual sport it's an ideal one for the less physically able kids to do but one of those random sports that few people even know how to do or where to start.

Nerdy non-athletic kids can do really well in the most bizarre of sports like archery and I would love for my son to incorporate that into riding cos he'd be a good horseback combat archery as well but again, he doesn't like anything that singles him out alone and would rather blend in and be part of a larger group or team.

Nicest bunch of people you can meet too. Most of them do a lot of work for TV and film as extras on shows such as Game of Thrones and Vikings they're built like shit-houses and look like savages off to rape and pillage but they're so sweet, well mannered and beautifully spoken.

Including link to a clip from my son's group at Whittington Castle for reference but even if anyone doesn't want to get involved with the combat or raping and pillaging, they are always looking for people with an interest in arts, crafts and skills that can be used for creating costumes, weapons and making the entire group as authentic as possible.

Dds football team had a rule that any parent shouting at the kids on the pitch, even "advice" would mean their child wouldn't play in the next match. We had to sign it!

I'm sure a lot of clubs have similar rules. However, I doubt many clubs actually enforce the rules. At the end of the day they want people to continue coming, and won't want to risk good players going to other clubs. So although it may not be allowed, i'm sure it happens a lot and people turn a blind eye.

@JoBrodie

After listening to Matthew Sweet's excellent "A History of Violence" (about school PE) on BBC Radio 4 I was slightly encouraged by the attitudes of the modern PE teachers interviewed in terms of not yelling at the unsporty kids, so I hope things have improved a bit from my schooldays.

The programme arose from a tweet he sent in 2018 asking his followers why PE was the "only subject in which humiliation was seen as part of the learning process", referenced here in his later tweet introducing the programme twitter.com/DrMatthewSweet/status/1094292710591262720.

For me personally - zero sport involvement (participating, watching), yuck.

Jo

Yes that is an excellent listen! PE has moved on a lot since then, and as I've said before, the teachers are really trying to make a difference and I'd imagine it can be utterly thankless, particularly if some of the kids of parents posting here are in your class, refusing to believe that PE has changed for the better.

Dds football team had a rule that any parent shouting at the kids on the pitch, even "advice" would mean their child wouldn't play in the next match. We had to sign it!

Perfect! Although sad that it was even necessary for children’s sport!

@JoBrodie I posted a clip from John Ameachi where he said a similar thing. If a French teacher behaved the same way as a PE teacher, parents would be outraged. Sport seems to get a free pass for this behaviour.

@MotionActivatedDog

Dds football team had a rule that any parent shouting at the kids on the pitch, even "advice" would mean their child wouldn't play in the next match. We had to sign it!

Perfect! Although sad that it was even necessary for children’s sport!

Yes! I agree. But it is a total no no at least for the women's football team she belonged to.

I think it can be great - and awful. I do think that the key is to separate the children according to levels in school sport if possible.

My DCs do a lot of team sport outside school. They are in the top teams and love every second of sports, in and out of school. In their schools, they have a number of teams (A - I teams) which means that everyone can play at their level which I think it great. All teams are coached by different coaches.

Once a child has done (for example football) 3x / week outside school for 5-6 years, it is harder for children who only play in school to get the ball. And a 10- year old is unlikely to be mature enough to “play nice” and let others (same age) get the ball if they try hard enough. Generally, they are great with younger children but they seem not to fully grasp the concept that other children of their age should be treated differently to their team mates outside school.

But if you play with others at your level - and compete with other teams (against other schools where you have the chance to win), it is much more fun. It may be that independent schools are better at organising this, there seems to be an expectation that everyone takes part. And there is a player of the match for each team, also the I team which means that all children will have the chance to get an award for each fixture.

And then again, some children don’t like team sports 🤷‍♀️

I tend to find sporty kids are actually more emotionally resilient and often harder working. I realise it's a generalisation but training for an end goal and coping with losing are good life experiences.

We need to expose kids to a small amount of controlled stress but remove it all.

I also think Malcolm Gladwell’s theory that you have to do something for 10,000 hours set a lot of parents off in a bad direction. You could virtually see some dads counting every hour.

DS absolutely adores football. He comes alive with the ball at his feet.

But some of the matches he's attended the parents have behaved appallingly. We've lost 2 refs this year due to abuse from parents on the sidelines. The refs are teenagers who are learning. It's bloody disgraceful that grown adults behave this way.

DH now reads the riot act to all spectators before every match. Pointing out they are there to watch. Good play should be applauded and celebrated. Children should make their own decisions on the pitch and the referee's decision is final. He shouldn't have to point out the obvious, but there we are.

But then when you see boing opponents anthems st international games, players taking the knee to highlight the fact they are STILL being racially abused and no action is taken, and the refs allow the matches to continue, then what message is coming from UEFA and the FA. They need to start empowering and supporting officials at all levels to pause the game and eject offenders. Spectator abuse seems to be something that players of all ages just need to put up with and that shouldn't be the case.

@Spanielstail

I tend to find sporty kids are actually more emotionally resilient and often harder working. I realise it's a generalisation but training for an end goal and coping with losing are good life experiences.

We need to expose kids to a small amount of controlled stress but remove it all.

Dds driving instructor said the kids from her swim club were always the easiest to teach to drive, determined and polite. Interesting.

My middle school was heinous for PE. How t all of the boxes for cliques, bullying of the rubbish ones, limited coaching it. My high school did many things wrong but I think got PE right. We had 6-8 week blocks of options that swapped around. I remember doing climbing, trampolining, orienteering, using gym equipment, yoga, swimming. It meant it was possible to largely avoid team sports if you picked well. The sporty kids could then focus on getting better at their team sports while everyone else got exercise in a more enjoyable way.

@Bunnycat101

My middle school was heinous for PE. How t all of the boxes for cliques, bullying of the rubbish ones, limited coaching it. My high school did many things wrong but I think got PE right. We had 6-8 week blocks of options that swapped around. I remember doing climbing, trampolining, orienteering, using gym equipment, yoga, swimming. It meant it was possible to largely avoid team sports if you picked well. The sporty kids could then focus on getting better at their team sports while everyone else got exercise in a more enjoyable way.

Dds old state school did this. It was good (not for her as she wanted to play football and that was boys only!, but good generally

@PinniGig we have a similar local group here and my DS loved the archery on their open day. They weren’t busy so although he was only supposed to have 6 shots they let him stay as long as he liked and gave him 3:1 archery coaching! Really great group of people.

@Whinge

Dds football team had a rule that any parent shouting at the kids on the pitch, even "advice" would mean their child wouldn't play in the next match. We had to sign it!

I'm sure a lot of clubs have similar rules. However, I doubt many clubs actually enforce the rules. At the end of the day they want people to continue coming, and won't want to risk good players going to other clubs. So although it may not be allowed, i'm sure it happens a lot and people turn a blind eye.

If refs took a flat out no tolerance approach to abuse and squaring up from players or parents they would soon end up either with a much calmer, more respectful group of players and kids that aren't will have to check their behaviour as will parents.

I can't get over how bad some football players are even three or four of them surrounding and squaring right up to the ref. I'd be Right that's it – red card get the fuck off my pitch right now and if you're not gone within the next 30 seconds you're banned from playing

Our club definitely enforced the rules

YABU because there's are coaches and PE teachers who truly inspire and support children through the sports they facilitate.

However I do agree that the ones who ruin it are awful and make the entire thing seem like a farce. My eldest played for a team for 5 years, loved every session, played her heart out in every match and overall couldn't be kept away. Then one of those coaches came alongousted the previous coach through bullying and within one season she hated the sport and dropped it like a stone.

It's like many things, with the right people supporting into her background sport can be a marvellous and life affirming thing (not to mention healthier) but just one bad seed can spread disharmony and misery like wildfire and ruin all linked experiences.

I tend to find sporty kids are actually more emotionally resilient and often harder working. I realise it's a generalisation but training for an end goal and coping with losing are good life experiences.

And you don’t think creating a piece for an art competition or studying for exams can develop the experience of training for an end goal and coping with losing? It must be done through sport?

@MotionActivatedDog

I tend to find sporty kids are actually more emotionally resilient and often harder working. I realise it's a generalisation but training for an end goal and coping with losing are good life experiences.

And you don’t think creating a piece for an art competition or studying for exams can develop the experience of training for an end goal and coping with losing? It must be done through sport?

Lots of schools have those things, just as there are also art clubs etc. You’ll be hard pushed to find a secondary school that doesn’t offer them.

Lots of schools have those things, just as there are also art clubs etc. You’ll be hard pushed to find a secondary school that doesn’t offer them.

What?

@AssemblySquare

The back story is my DS who is 13 and a latecomer to football. It’s vile. He joined a coaching session rather than a team and it crushed his confidence. He got bullied and the coach refused to address it because my son lacked experience!!!! Joined a local team described as “friendly and supportive” and it really isn’t. We have spent the last few years driving all over the place to watch him be handed the sub’s vest every time. I watch his face fall and his confidence ebb away a little bit more. It’s awful and I’m done with it.

We had a similar experience. It was heartbreaking watching him watch every game from the sidelines.

He left, did a fab mountain biking club for a year and at 12 or so joined a rugby team. As a complete novice, they were absolutely brilliant. Super encouraging and really supportive. Plus rugby have a rule that all players play at least half a game so there’s no sitting on a subs bench for a 2 minute game at the end.

I don’t like to generalise but it does seem that football is one of the worst offenders for this type of behaviour.

@MotionActivatedDog

Lots of schools have those things, just as there are also art clubs etc. You’ll be hard pushed to find a secondary school that doesn’t offer them.

What?

Surely you know that virtually all secondary schools have art clubs etc?

Surely you know that virtually all secondary schools have art clubs etc?

I do, the “what?” Was more a “what point are you trying to make?”

[quote MotionActivatedDog]@PinniGig we have a similar local group here and my DS loved the archery on their open day. They weren’t busy so although he was only supposed to have 6 shots they let him stay as long as he liked and gave him 3:1 archery coaching! Really great group of people.[/quote]
They are a really good lot. So funny as well we were at a big meet and battle at Lancaster Castle and I will never forget the group leader doing his thing yelling at the top of his voice that the men ough to turn back and leave whilst they still have the chance.

You will never break these castle walls your efforts are futile! Flee and save your lives!!!

Voice from one of the lads waiting to crash the castle "Don't listen to him he's not even the boss!"

Then my son "died" on the battlefield and audibly yelled Eurrggh.. generic death battle cry oh what a world what a world" Bluerruggh and collapsed into a heap I laughed myself for daft for ages.

YABU for using “sport” when you mean football.
Football is unique in this country as by FAR the most popular sport with a history of poor behaviour by clubs and parents. Many clubs are trying to deal with it and some manage it but my 17yr old nephew is a ref for kids football and knows which clubs are going to be hard work already.

There are many other sports and clubs who are happy to have beginners join and appreciate everyone who wants to join.
Football doesn’t have the same need to attract participants.