To loathe organised sport and what it does to children?

[AssemblySquare]

There is a back story to this but it’s long and boring. I’m just sick and tired of sport being held up as this wonderful thing that brings people together, but all I have ever seen and experienced is divisiveness, bullying and meanness. I’m so done with it all, especially at grass roots level and at school where most kids seem to get shouted at by PE teachers and coaches taking out their own frustrations that they weren’t quite good enough to make it.

Some sports definitely have a vile and ingrained level of bullying and abuse that's just accepted but there are also some sports that are the polar opposite and couldn't be more helpful and encouraging for kids that might lack confidence and not want or feel comfortable being out there alone.

Football is a real issue when it comes to just awful kids on the pitch, awful parents and I'm gobsmacked at how some of the world's top players and teams behave and show the most appalling disrespect to the ref. I dunno why so many let it go either.

Women's football on the other hand generally speaking is world's apart and the lasses tend to be the most supportive, encouraging, welcoming and respectful to everyone be it refs and other officials, team mates they're playing against and even the haters and unpleasant folk out there they don't get riled or let them ruffle their feathers.

I love the analogy that football is a gentleman's game played by hooligans and rugby is a hooligan's game played by gentleman.

@RampantIvy

but yours is not a universal experience

I think you'll find it isn't an unusual experience. At DD's school they used to set for PE, which I thought was a good idea. So the really sporty pupils didn't have the opportunity to make the less sporty kids feel bad about their lack of ability.

In my experience not being sporty is often seen as a moral failing or some kind of personality deficiency by sporty types and little Hitlers bullying PE teachers.

Or maybe train PE teachers to value inclusivity and kindness, especially in curriculum sport.

I wasn't good at sport at school and have no interest in it now. I was always last to be picked for any team and was often assigned to the strongest team as a sort of handicap. Even with that dispiriting experience I still think YABU. For lots of kids sport and PE are their chance to shine. It would be very wrong to take that away from them.

And I don't recognise your description of PE staff, not from my own experience or from observing them when I worked in schools. PE teachers are generally very popular with the students (even I liked them) and that wouldn't be the case if they were the frustrated, sadistic failures you describe.

@SimonJT Everyone can play sport, some may not be brilliant at it, but it doesn’t mean they can’t do it.

Unfortunately, team sport brings out the worst in people, especially those good at it who want to do it properly. They don't want the kids who can't play, on their teams, hence the stigma, bullying, etc. that's damaging to the non sporty children.

Nothing wrong with offering a choice of sport and providing options for non team sports that are more inclusive. Unfortunately it seems that a lot of schools/teachers don't want to do that and decide that team sports are compulsory.

I thought things would have changed over the years since I was at school, but no, my son still had to do compulsory rugby in autumn term, then compulsory football after Xmas, then compulsory cricket after Easter! No choices/options at all, until GCSE years. Luckily he was active and fit, so he got through it, but didn't like it and endured it rather than enjoyed it.

@Whoarethewho

We have a massive obesity crisis caused by lack of exercise and poor eating. We need massively more sport not less.

I agree, but exercise doesn't have to mean team sports.

@Velvian That’s a great point comparing sport and maths in schools. Can you imagine asking two children to stand up and publicly point out who in their class is worst at maths? Would never happen. It happens in sport all the time - every time children pick teams.
Sport, and particularly school sport, is also usually structured (intentionally or not) to widen the gaps, so the best get better and the others get left behind, because they were never taught the rules or techniques properly, so never picked to play, so don’t build experience.
I was in my 30s before I realised that distance running is something you can learn to do, rather than just a natural ability you either have or you don’t. I’ve lost count of the number of friends who had the same experience.
With team sport, there are whole extra layers of social pressure built in too. For children, it can be pretty unpleasant. As they get older, particularly in universities, a lot of the absolute worst behaviour and particularly peer pressure around alcohol, sex and generally reckless behaviour comes from the sports teams.
Team sports are one way to help some people exercise and have fun, but we need to get better at offering other ways to do those things for the many people for whom team sports are actually quite an unpleasant experience.

YABU
DD has had some fantastic experiences through sport and made some lovely friends. Most (but not all) coaches and PE teaches have been lovely, supportive, encouraging and despite her not being ‘the best’ at her chosen sports, have been inclusive.

Like many previous posters it keeps her healthy and focused and not driven by other peer pressures.

I can certainly see the other side as I have a DS who is completely different and I myself have suffered a lifetime of obesity and low self esteem in part due to exercise not being part of my upbringing and receiving no encouragement or options at the time. Looking back I really wish I had access to more sport.

I’m sure there are some bad coaches (like there are bad teachers, managers, people in all careers) but on the whole I am grateful.

There are also many individual sports without quite the same pressures- board diving, riding, cycling etc.

@Bryonyshcmyony

OK, well your average state school doesn't have an artificial ski slope, tennis courts for all and a golf course, so not sure what your point is?

My point is that I've become a healthy and active sporty adult once I left the awful, toxic environment of school team sports. School sports did nothing for me, either on the sports field or in team work in other areas of life. That was simply down to crap teaching and an obsession of team sports.

My point is that there are lots of sports/activities that aren't team-obsessed and that can be enjoyed by the less sporty people. It's a shame that schools/teachers don't understand that.

We have had fantastic experiences with organised sport. My son is a member of a massively inclusive club. They are running 3 sessions a week for free (for members, so annual fee but works out at prob a £1 a session) over the summer that you can drop in to - so nice for him to have something over the summer he knows he can just turn up to and see mates and have some structure, also he won't loose his fitness over the summer. The coaches are excellent and he really respects them. My daughter is at a similar club. I thank my lucky stars that they're into organised sport. They are so fit and healthy, making friendships put of school, learning teamwork, enjoying the adrenaline of matches . . . . All good.

They do understand that, and show me a modern state school where they don't do at least one half term of non team sport? As I've said, it's very hard to do all these individual sports when you have a group of 32. Perhaps model resilience in your kids? I only ever hear this loathing of school sports on Mumsnet anyway so am assuming it's just a trope on here.

@Velvian

It is a bit disingenuous to object to the OP on the grounds of the obesity crisis. The elitist nature of sport itself must play a role in levels of obesity.

People that are crap at sport get just as much out of team sports as those that are really good. There are only so many rejections you can take before you stop putting yourself in that position.

Schools would find it totally unacceptable to withdraw the offer of Maths to students that are rubbish at it. Even more unacceptable to highlight a deficiency in Maths amongst someone's peers. It is totally acceptable to do both of those for sport.

My DC have mild mobility problems, but there are no teaching assistants or adaptations for PE. DD loves football, but she is unlikely to ever be good at it. It is really upsetting for her, wondering how long she will be tolerated in the lunch time football club (at primary school).

I agree with this. I was not an overweight kid but I'm autistic and have object blindness - there is absolutely no way I process the set of moving objects that is a field of players and ball well or fast enough to be anything but hopeless. I had zero support for this because autism wasn't really recognised in girls and I didn't fit the stereotypical view of it at all. So I just got yelled at and grew to hate sport. Never played a team sport and never will. I love swimming, yoga, walking, cross-trainers, all that. Its definitely not an argument from health.

@Velvian

The trouble is *@MissyB1*, that team sport is one of the best ways for children to exercise, they don't even realise they are exercising, they are having fun and being part of a team. You can push yourself much harder when you are playing as part of a team and training means that you are 'exercising' with your friends.

There are people of all abilities that can get so much out of it.

Sorry but I totally disagree with this.

Team sport is utterly miserable for many kids. They don't enjoy it, get nothing out of it except dread and humiliation (and often tears).

Exercise is great for people of all ages but it doesn't have to be done in "teams".

If you are autistic and have a form of visual impairment then you wouldn't be expected to do team sports at any state school I know.

Dread and humiliation?! Oh come on. The vast majority of kids who aren't good at it just muck about with their mates.

The ire directed at PE teachers is misplaced too I reckon. Yes, perhaps your child doesn't like team sport and resents having to do it or feels bad that they aren't much good. My DS feels the same about maths, but I don't blame the teachers. It's important for him to get a basic grip on maths, never mind that he's in the lowest set. Could the maths be more tailored to his needs, yes - but it's a state school and the teacher has 30 pupils to attend to. It's important that students get a grip on sport and fitness, nevermind that if they aren't much good. Would they enjoy it more if there was a massive range of individual sports on offer from fencing to diving, yes - but in most schools this would be impossible so stiff upper lip really.

I was in my 30s before I realised that distance running is something you can learn to do, rather than just a natural ability you either have or you don’t. I’ve lost count of the number of friends who had the same experience.

This resonates with me so much. It took until my later 20s to realise I actually liked sport and excerise. For years I joked about not being sporty, laughed at myself for not being able to run or play sports.

However it's not the case at all. I actually like sports, I just had such a miserable time of being forced to participate in team sports at school, that It turned me off exploring what else was out there. Being made to feel like I wasn't sporty because I was so used to letting everyone down, and being blamed for losing. As well as being humilated publically during school sports days.

I often wonder how many people out there have the potential to be amazing at specific sports, but never try because of negative experiences at school.

That's when you assume all children have mates - as in people who want to spend time with you not just because they'd do anything to not be alone.

There are so many kids I know who aren't sporty, come last in races but still join in and are encouraged. They certainly don't feel humiliated or tortured. Maybe they are more resilient and have learnt thst you can't always be the best at something. In fact the ones who manage to enjoy it (which is the vast majority of girls pre the teen years) often end up growing in confidence and improving.

I often wonder how many people out there have the potential to be amazing at specific sports, but never try because of negative experiences at school

Perhaps their parents could make an effort to find something they enjoy?

If you would like your kids to do a sport that gets away from team pressures and pushy parents you could try golf. It’s really just you and the course . Obviously you can get serious and do competitions but you dont have to bother with it at all if you dont want to . Generally no one cares about anyone else’s game except their own. It can also be lovely social game . There are loads of second hand sets you can buy and golf pros tend to be very kind and encouraging.

To the posters who loved competitive sport at school...

Would you still have loved it if you were no good at it?
Would you still have loved it if you were always chosen last by the team captains?
Would you have still loved it if, despite being no good and always chosen last, the teachers never helped you improve?
Do you think your children would love it if the above applied to them?

Somehow I doubt you would've liked years of that. I didn't, it was a regular awful experience that has made me hate competitive sport ever since, and did nothing to encourage me to be more physically active as an adult. Thankfully I've found other ways to stay PA, but that was no thanks to my school experiences.

I agree with the OP in that it often is like that, sadly, and was in my case. Clearly some have positive experiences though. I think things have improved in some schools though in that the emphasis is no longer solely on competitive sports; they offer different options such as dance, yoga, tai chi and non competitive cross country running. After a miserable and humiliating childhood experience of ‘sport’ and PE, it took me many years to learn that physical exercise can be done in a way that doesn’t humiliate or traumatise me or others.

YABU.

PE is important. Experiencing teamwork and competition (academically - but also physically) is important. The vast majority of PE teachers are decent people doing a good job.

@Whoarethewho

We have a massive obesity crisis caused by lack of exercise and poor eating. We need massively more sport not less.

Well, school sports clearly aren't working then are they?

Why do more of the same?

How about offering more choices/options instead of obsessing about team sports?

Let the kids do team sports who want to, but let others do alternative options for keeping fit, even if it's just jogging, swimming, walking, gym, tennis, table tennis, etc.

Or have more non competitive "team" sport options for the kids who aren't obsessed and just want a bit of fun rather than having to win.