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AIBU?

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Original poster

10 year olds learning about the holocaust etc

258 replies

restbetweentheelements · 23/07/2021 19:48

Dc's yeargroup are 9/10
His teacher this year has told them in graphic detail about:

  • gas chambers in german concentration camps
  • terror in french revolution by showing painting of chopped off head with blood held up next to guillotine and details of what happened
  • all about the charlie hebdo teacher terrorist attack in france
  • murders in news how many women were killed by partners - they chatted about the news on fridays and dc said it was never about life affirming things (he said nice or interesting things)
DC has been affected by it, and he drew a picture of his teacher with a guillotine and children and he wrote "our teacher is killing us with terror" (he draws a lot, is quite expressive generally...) - i found the drawing screwed up in the bottom of his bag

YANBU - the teaching is not appropriate, the subject matter of treatment of Jews etc is ok in age appropriare way is okay but focusing on terror aspects is not
YABU - no problem with this

If YANBU, then WWYD
I remember learning about medieval torture methods when 10, at school. Is there some sort of theory about terror being useful for 10 year olds???

OP posts:
Original poster
restbetweentheelements · 26/07/2021 14:42

@fourminutestosavetheworld

I'm guessing he only has a couple more days in this class op, if he hasn't already finished. Hopefully you can help him process it all over the Summer holidays and he'll have a better experience at secondary in September.
@fourminutestosavetheworld I read your earlier posts and came back to the thread because I wanted to ask you a question. Firstly, just to confirm that dc is penultimate year of primary, next year is final year. i talked to him each time to help him process during the year. I said he was affected not that he didn't cope, he is fairly resilient, and what I said here was just a tiny snapshot of the last year. This thread is more about me reflecting and working out what to do next year.

This is what I wanted to ask you about:
For me, the fact that your son is upset at a painting of the French Revolution, suggests some unusual sensitivity. I wouldn't go in from a position of thinking that the teacher is not acting appropriately, but from a position of wanting to support your son. I'm not suggesting that you ignore it btw. I have only ever had one complaint about how WW2 is taught in our school, and that little boy did go on to need an awful lot of support, so it is certainly best to investigate just to clarify that the talk about the French Revolution went into detail about the guillotine and the "Terror" and some of the tortures and punishments and so it wasn't just looking at a work of art. It was the same thing as the holocaust, in that dc has the book "Timelines of Everything" which covers the FR and we had talked about it before the lesson, about Robespierre and why things happened and what happened afterwards, and dc came home and said his teacher had talked a lot about the blood and gore instead - the book he read had a nod to the guillotine, but his teacher had gone into detail. Yes, I do take on board all your other comments.

That said, please could you explain what you mean about investigating sensitivities - that little boy did go on to need an awful lot of support - I am just not clear about what you mean, don't worry about offending me, I just wanted more information about what you thought needed to be investigated. Or would you re-think that advice given the detail the teacher went into in relation to this subject?

Thanks

OP posts:
Original poster
restbetweentheelements · 26/07/2021 14:45

@Maggiemay92

Also, stop calling it 'terror' for dramatic effect. It's not terror. It's history.
Just to clarify "Killing us with Terror" was a play on words - it was a reference to a period of history known to historians as The Terror - Robespierre was in charge and huge numbers went to the guillotine without trial. Dc's teacher had gone into detail about this.

There is terror in history and as others have said, you can teach history with or without the terror aspects. I do in fact think that knowing about the terror is important, but only for much older children.

OP posts:
Taliskerskye · 26/07/2021 17:08

He’s probably already seen porn.
Yes this is what people get upset about!

Tal45 · 26/07/2021 17:21

@Taliskerskye

He’s probably already seen porn. Yes this is what people get upset about!
Shocking that you think that, he's ten years old and unless he has unlimited access to the internet he probably hasn't seen porn. If your child is parented properly there's no reason they should have access to porn at that age.

I think a sensitive 10 year old could really struggle with the holocaust. We read a book around that age that was fictional about a nuclear holocaust and people trying to survive after. It was a really horrible book and I was really quite traumatised by it although it was written for children. Totally unnecessary to learn about these things at this age, there are plenty of years left to cover it.

Taliskerskye · 26/07/2021 17:32

@Tal45
I didn’t mean from bad parenting. There are plenty of 10 -11 yr olds who have seen things via friends phones which are graphic. Lots of kids don’t have age appropriate parental control on their devices

You are deluded and naive if you think that some children this age haven’t been exposed to some kind of graphic content on a smart phone.

leonpride · 26/07/2021 17:38

I drew a picture of a guillotine at his age learning about the tudors. You're acting like he's going to be psychologically damaged from learning history like every other child

How do you expect him to go to secondary without knowing anything about these things? As long as it's age appropriate, it's ok. Maybe speak to the teacher

UndertheCedartree · 26/07/2021 17:46

I think the focus on terror and nothing else is too much for Y5. You can learn about WW2 without focusing on horrifying facts.

I know at that age when I was at school we had some actors come in to do a play about all the horrible things that happened to DC over history. I had nightmares and anxiety about that for ages afterwards.

Hope your DS is ok. At least he is on holidays now and his next teacher hopefully won't be so fixated on terror.

Original poster
restbetweentheelements · 26/07/2021 18:29

[quote Taliskerskye]@Tal45
I didn’t mean from bad parenting. There are plenty of 10 -11 yr olds who have seen things via friends phones which are graphic. Lots of kids don’t have age appropriate parental control on their devices

You are deluded and naive if you think that some children this age haven’t been exposed to some kind of graphic content on a smart phone.[/quote]
No he won't have seen porn, but yes some ten year olds will have seen graphic content on phones, at home, video games. This is another thing that bugs me, to be honest. Going on statitistics, there will be children in the class who are witnessing DV, are being sexually abused, will be being neglected. I just think it is bizarre that some teachers then think it appropriate that they are taught about the blood and gore as they are. I think there should be a bit more thought about this in terms of policy, and all schools and teachers expected to follow strict guidelines.

OP posts:
Original poster
restbetweentheelements · 26/07/2021 18:30

statistics!

OP posts:
owlbethere · 26/07/2021 18:44

The ONLY part she taught was the stripping etc?

I don’t think so.

malificent7 · 26/07/2021 18:49

I thought kids love this gruesome stuff...horrible histories anyone?
Anyway, I thought one point of history is to reflect on the horrors that mankind is capable of.

DeRigueurMortis · 26/07/2021 21:04

Frankly I think not teaching kids about these horrors is irresponsible.

Wrapping children in cotton wool does them a disservice.

The world is often not a nice place.

Even today there are children dying because of poverty.

Girls being sold as sex slaves. Children being blown up and suffering life changing injuries.

There are absolutely ways to explain these issues to 10 year old that are age appropriate.

Many families have to do this, quite simply to explain their own history.

Why they left their home country.

Why their grandparents have no living siblings.

Why their brother has no legs.

Etc etc.

It's the height of privilege to protect your child from these issues.

Maybe reflect on that Biscuit

Wantaweekinthesun · 26/07/2021 21:08

He will be in high school in a year. It's fine. I honestly think kids are mollycoddled far too much these days.

ichundich · 26/07/2021 22:10

@malificent7

I thought kids love this gruesome stuff...horrible histories anyone? Anyway, I thought one point of history is to reflect on the horrors that mankind is capable of.
"Love the gruesome stuff" when you mean the Holocaust? Are you for real?!!
ichundich · 26/07/2021 22:12

[quote Taliskerskye]@Tal45
I didn’t mean from bad parenting. There are plenty of 10 -11 yr olds who have seen things via friends phones which are graphic. Lots of kids don’t have age appropriate parental control on their devices

You are deluded and naive if you think that some children this age haven’t been exposed to some kind of graphic content on a smart phone.[/quote]
Whilst this is a worrying trend, I don't think these two things are at all comparable.

Kanaloa · 26/07/2021 22:29

My 10 & 11 yo have both read a lot around the Holocaust and world war 2 - they did it in school and read Goodnight Mister Tom and also watched an interview of an elderly lady telling the story of how she had been taken away to a camp with her family - it really affected my son as the lady had brothers and sisters and they were all separated, I think one of them died too.

I think the best thing is to talk through why this is upsetting and why it’s important. Big feelings for a 10 year old to work through and sometimes they need support to understand these feelings. There are lots of books aimed at kids this age (Horrible Histories for one) that describe history in its gruesome truth.

Kanaloa · 26/07/2021 22:31

Also, having helped my kids when learning about the Holocaust, I have absolutely no idea how you would teach what Jewish people went through ‘without the terror.’ What would that look like?

VenusStarr · 26/07/2021 22:38

I learnt about the holocaust when I was on year 6, so aged 9. I recall watching a graphic video and a friend whispered to me that she would've taken her gask mask in the chamber and I told her she was stupid and I got sent out of the classroom.

DeflatedGinDrinker · 26/07/2021 22:50

Non issue op sounds about the age mine were taught it.

IncorrigibleTitmouse · 26/07/2021 22:52

@restbetweentheelements

Dc's yeargroup are 9/10 His teacher this year has told them in graphic detail about:
  • gas chambers in german concentration camps
  • terror in french revolution by showing painting of chopped off head with blood held up next to guillotine and details of what happened
  • all about the charlie hebdo teacher terrorist attack in france
  • murders in news how many women were killed by partners - they chatted about the news on fridays and dc said it was never about life affirming things (he said nice or interesting things)
DC has been affected by it, and he drew a picture of his teacher with a guillotine and children and he wrote "our teacher is killing us with terror" (he draws a lot, is quite expressive generally...) - i found the drawing screwed up in the bottom of his bag

YANBU - the teaching is not appropriate, the subject matter of treatment of Jews etc is ok in age appropriare way is okay but focusing on terror aspects is not
YABU - no problem with this

If YANBU, then WWYD
I remember learning about medieval torture methods when 10, at school. Is there some sort of theory about terror being useful for 10 year olds???

We devoted the whole of year 6 history to WW2 and learned about the Holocaust and that was in 1993! I think that's an appropriate age to introduce it. As I recall, most of the kids in a history class loved the gruesome details of death and torture.

I was a sensitive soul and didn't like it at all but I was in the minority. I suppose that's why Horrible Histories is so popular.

IceLace100 · 26/07/2021 23:23

They need to know the gruesome details and be shocked / upset / horrified by them so it never happens again.

DeRigueurMortis · 26/07/2021 23:34

When do you expect to learn about these atrocities and not be shocked and upset?

Would you prefer your child not to have a reaction?

I spoke to DS about this knowing it was a school topic. He was sad. He was disturbed. He was distressed. He cried.

I was glad he did.

Totally appropriate reactions.

That's exactly why we tell the history so they are visceral experiences and won't be forgotten.

DeRigueurMortis · 26/07/2021 23:34

@IceLace100

They need to know the gruesome details and be shocked / upset / horrified by them so it never happens again.

👏👏👏

theThreeofWeevils · 27/07/2021 02:08

Ten is by no means too young to experience that 'This is real and could happen to ME (and mummy and daddy and siblings and then what would happen to poor Fido/Felix) moment. So what if the child is upset? Being upset is part of being alive.

Cormoran · 27/07/2021 02:42

My grandmother was in the French resistance, got caught , tortured by Gestapo and sent to a concentration camp. She survived and holocaust, wars, gestapo torture and in general how humans have this infinite ability to inflict pain and fear on others humans is something I was told from very early age ( before primary) and I did the same with my kids.

And many more topics I believe children should be educated about , such how empires and powerful countries were built by enslaving and/ or exploiting others, apartheid, …

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