10 year olds learning about the holocaust etc

[restbetweentheelements]

Dc's yeargroup are 9/10
His teacher this year has told them in graphic detail about:

• gas chambers in german concentration camps
• terror in french revolution by showing painting of chopped off head with blood held up next to guillotine and details of what happened
• all about the charlie hebdo teacher terrorist attack in france
• murders in news how many women were killed by partners - they chatted about the news on fridays and dc said it was never about life affirming things (he said nice or interesting things)

DC has been affected by it, and he drew a picture of his teacher with a guillotine and children and he wrote "our teacher is killing us with terror" (he draws a lot, is quite expressive generally...) - i found the drawing screwed up in the bottom of his bag

YANBU - the teaching is not appropriate, the subject matter of treatment of Jews etc is ok in age appropriare way is okay but focusing on terror aspects is not
YABU - no problem with this

If YANBU, then WWYD
I remember learning about medieval torture methods when 10, at school. Is there some sort of theory about terror being useful for 10 year olds???

As was said a few times upthread, there is no problem with the subject matter, more that it was going against guidelines in how it was being taught - this is talked about upthread and the guidelines quoted.

In relation to the picture of the French Revolution, the teacher was talking in detail about the blood and gore - talking about the guillotine but also giving examples of other methods of killing such as pulling bodies a part with horses tied to each arm and each leg - do people think that that is appropriate and/or helpful? I don't but wanted to know what other people thought hence this thread.

The other subject matter mentioned - poverty, starvation, khmer rouge - I have talked to dc about all of this without going into detail of terror or horror or blood and gore.

Being killed with the terror was a play on words as they were talking about Robespierre and what is known as "The Terror"

Drawing and quartering is detailed in horrible histories, which my kids read before age 10. As I said, I think it would be difficult to teach some of these topics without the horror, how would you like it to be taught?

@Cormoran thank you to her and all the others. Their bravery should never be underestimated or forgotten . Merci infiniment.

@kanaloa I have replied to that upthread. DC read about the French Revolution, the social and political aspects, ouline of guillotine, what led up to the FR, the consequences, about the personalities like Robespierre, a year before they covered it in class. I did a history degree and that is how we covered it, the torture isn't seen as a key issue, although it might be when studying other periods. About the holocaust the guidelines say that details of the mass killings should not be taught to primary aged.

So, turning your question around, what do you think your dc gained from learning about drawing and quartering before the age of 10?

Where would you draw the line - what did you not want your 10 year old to know about?

The books we have probably concentrate more on politics, economics, social issues - not avoiding gore completely but not making it the focal point.

I was definitely taught about the Holocaust at Primary school in the early 90s with more detail being added at secondary school.

Remember that kids have more access to extremist stuff easier these days thanks to the internet so I'd rather my kid learnt about anti-Semitism, extremism at all levels from me/at school before some fascist or incel on the internet decides to do it

A few years ago I went to Northern Ballet's brilliant take of The Boy in Striped Pyjamas. There was a class of 10 year olds in the audience, very engaged and well-behaved, but during the last scene in the gas chambers, choreographed and danced very sensitively, the children were laughing at the people taking off their clothes, cheering the goodies, and booing the baddies. They didn't mean to be disrespectful, they were just too young to understand properly. Surely there's plenty in history to learn about at this age without concentrating on one of the the most horrific and evil periods? Either it has to be taught fully and the children traumatised, or taught superficially and the children unaware of the outcome....neither is right. Save it for age 15/16 when its origins and affects can be properly understood.
I have Jewish heritage myself so agree that it's necessary to learn about it, but not ar the tender age of ten. I think it's immoral to fill their minds with those horrors at primary school.
Spending the time on learning about prejudice, false information, peer group pressure, scapegoating, etc. would be better at this age.

I don’t particularly think my kids learned anything from horrible histories except an appreciation of what was accepted in the past and how much things have changed. I didn’t have an issue with them learning it however.

Obviously you do, but it could be your son is just extra sensitive and needs support while learning about difficult subjects.

@theThreeofWeevils

Ten is by no means too young to experience that 'This is real and could happen to ME (and mummy and daddy and siblings and then what would happen to poor Fido/Felix) moment. So what if the child is upset? Being upset is part of being alive.

Agree. Being upset is an appropriate response to learning about genocide.

I am going to assume that you have not actually sat in on any of the lessons and you are only hearing about it second hand from your son?

Is it possible that the gruesome elements are the only part of the lessons your son remembered/found interesting?

Surely if the teacher was only teaching history in such a morbid and disturbing way lots of other children would be traumatised and their parents would be complaining. How does your son get on with the teacher in general?

Also the drawing also sounds hilarious and very dramatic.

IMO children do need to be taught about the horrors of this sort of thing. I remember reading the Boy in Striped Pyjamas at maybe 11 and being shocked that I hadn’t learned about this sooner.

@Kanaloa

I don’t particularly think my kids learned anything from horrible histories except an appreciation of what was accepted in the past and how much things have changed. I didn’t have an issue with them learning it however.

Obviously you do, but it could be your son is just extra sensitive and needs support while learning about difficult subjects.

It isn't in the past, though. One of DC's first questions to me was does that sort of thing happens still today. Yes it does. I asked where do you draw the line, and it was a genuine question. If your dc gets nothing positive from it, what is the point.

My opinion is as upthread, this sort of thing too young can affect the brain, future learning, development, wellbeing if it isn't properly processed. I think a number of dc in any one class are going to have vulnerabilities. Anyway, I wanted to know other people's opinions and I appreciate you giving yours.

We learnt about Anne Frank in year 5/6 and my Mum bought me the book which I enjoyed reading, still have it now. I wouldn’t say any of the above is inappropriate and I’ve told my own similar aged DC about most of it. Some children are inevitably more sensitive than others which can’t be helped, most would be unphased.

We took our DDs to Dachau when they were around 10 or 12.
I think you're being a bit precious re your DS, sorry OP.

Ok, well if you think your sons development and well-being is being damaged by learning about history, perhaps you could raise it with his teacher? Personally, I don’t think it’s an issue but appreciate that you do.

@Kanaloa

Ok, well if you think your sons development and well-being is being damaged by learning about history, perhaps you could raise it with his teacher? Personally, I don’t think it’s an issue but appreciate that you do.

thanks kanaloa, you sound lovely.

Of course kids should be learning history they should be learning about factual events that took place, not about men in dresses.

@kanaloa Just checked out Horrible Histories which you recommended and find reviews are not all as positive as yours would be:

"I just found time to review the books before beginning to use them in my teaching. I am appalled to discover how much racism, violence, misogyny, and inappropriate content is depicted in these books"

"It appears that they ALL have material that is NOT age appropriate. Now I am stuck with a set of books that I cannot return any more, that I feel disgusted by...I believe book publishers need to be more responsible about their age ratings for the books they publish."

"the book about Aztecs had illustrations of their priests with human skins wrapped around their necks (an image I wish I could erase from my mind...). The book with US history in it showed African American slaves hanging from trees"

"In the Stormin Normans book, on page 12, there is a story about how William goes into a woman's room, beats her up, and then forces her to marry him...plant the seeds of domestic abuse against women in the minds of impressionable boys"

"These books are beyond disgusting"

@warmandtoasty2day

it doesn't sound the sort of thing a 10 year old should be hearing tbh. Way too young.

It's just history & on the national curriculum! They're seeing plenty of much more inappropriate crap online, believe me!

I think you probably haven't checked this website frenchrevolutiontimeline.com/ you can thank me later once you find the terror events majorly caused by the Robespierre that happened during the revolution.

I can't see the problem.
Ds2 learnt in year 6. Started with the boy in striped pyjamas. I think this is a fine age to start learning about it.

Sorry what year is he? 5 or 6?
And is he a summer born - is he very young in his year?

10 is not too young to be learning about these things. I'm actually surprised you don't talk about them at home.

Imagine how Jewish children feel when they learn why they don’t have a large extended family.

History is important for children to learn. I they need to know the nice parts as well as the scary, horrible parts.

My DD is nearly 9 and if she learnt a very valuable history lesson like this which also discussed the terror women feel every day, and made it about her in such a melodramatic way, the teacher would be the least of my problems

other methods of killing such as pulling bodies a part with horses tied to each arm and each leg - do people think that that is appropriate and/or helpful?

It’s fine - not like he’s doing a live demonstration FFS.

[quote restbetweentheelements]@kanaloa Just checked out Horrible Histories which you recommended and find reviews are not all as positive as yours would be:

"I just found time to review the books before beginning to use them in my teaching. I am appalled to discover how much racism, violence, misogyny, and inappropriate content is depicted in these books"

"It appears that they ALL have material that is NOT age appropriate. Now I am stuck with a set of books that I cannot return any more, that I feel disgusted by...I believe book publishers need to be more responsible about their age ratings for the books they publish."

"the book about Aztecs had illustrations of their priests with human skins wrapped around their necks (an image I wish I could erase from my mind...). The book with US history in it showed African American slaves hanging from trees"

"In the Stormin Normans book, on page 12, there is a story about how William goes into a woman's room, beats her up, and then forces her to marry him...plant the seeds of domestic abuse against women in the minds of impressionable boys"

"These books are beyond disgusting"[/quote]
I’m a little embarrassed for the poster who wrote the first review TBH. Of course there’s racism and misogyny in our history! Writing about does not = condoning it. Do people really expect history to be sugar coated lest they upset little Timmy or point out something inconvenient?