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AIBU?

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Original poster

10 year olds learning about the holocaust etc

258 replies

restbetweentheelements · 23/07/2021 19:48

Dc's yeargroup are 9/10
His teacher this year has told them in graphic detail about:

  • gas chambers in german concentration camps
  • terror in french revolution by showing painting of chopped off head with blood held up next to guillotine and details of what happened
  • all about the charlie hebdo teacher terrorist attack in france
  • murders in news how many women were killed by partners - they chatted about the news on fridays and dc said it was never about life affirming things (he said nice or interesting things)
DC has been affected by it, and he drew a picture of his teacher with a guillotine and children and he wrote "our teacher is killing us with terror" (he draws a lot, is quite expressive generally...) - i found the drawing screwed up in the bottom of his bag

YANBU - the teaching is not appropriate, the subject matter of treatment of Jews etc is ok in age appropriare way is okay but focusing on terror aspects is not
YABU - no problem with this

If YANBU, then WWYD
I remember learning about medieval torture methods when 10, at school. Is there some sort of theory about terror being useful for 10 year olds???

OP posts:
Geamhradh · 23/07/2021 20:14

@sadperson16

Its far too much. Children are already terrorised. This is suitable for a secondary curriculm , year 8/9.
Thankfully education experts and curriculum writers disagree.
Original poster
restbetweentheelements · 23/07/2021 20:15

Yes aged 9 and 10

OP posts:
Mockolate · 23/07/2021 20:15

Mine learned about the Holocaust and WW2 in primary.
Think it was in year 5 (so about the same age, age 10)
YABU, it's an important part of history.

OrlandointheWilderness · 23/07/2021 20:16

My DD is 10. Graphic details like this would terrify her and be of no purpose. Age appropriate, yes, but just because some children can handle it doesn't mean all can.

mineofuselessinformation · 23/07/2021 20:16

You need to have a conversation with him, telling him you've seen the picture and asking him why he felt he wanted to draw it - he may be finding the information difficult to process, and as a parent you can help him through that.
That doesn't mean the teacher was necessarily wrong, though.

OrangeSamphire · 23/07/2021 20:17

All of this, plus the existential terror of climate change, really was too much for my daughter when she was in yr5 and yr6.

Now she is 12 she’s able to process this type of stuff without it overwhelming her.

It’s too young IMO. Particularly for autistic DC.

beastlyslumber · 23/07/2021 20:18

That's a tough one. I think that the horror of genocide is something that should deeply affect everyone and stay with them for their whole lives. I do understand though, that you don't want children to be traumatised by what they're learning. It sounds like it would be worth having a chat with the teacher and asking to see the materials that are being used. It does sound like the lessons are very negative. Alongside learning about the horrors of humanity, we have to see the hope and the beauty. That's just as, if not more, important.

On the positive side, "our teacher is killing us with terror" is a very expressive comment which suggests a lot of empathy.

MrsPelligrinoPetrichor · 23/07/2021 20:18

What age do you think they should learn it?

Original poster
restbetweentheelements · 23/07/2021 20:19

@mineofuselessinformation

You need to have a conversation with him, telling him you've seen the picture and asking him why he felt he wanted to draw it - he may be finding the information difficult to process, and as a parent you can help him through that. That doesn't mean the teacher was necessarily wrong, though.
We have done that, he talked regularly through the year.
OP posts:
SirGawain · 23/07/2021 20:20

@warmandtoasty2day

it doesn't sound the sort of thing a 10 year old should be hearing tbh. Way too young.
I think there are too many people advocating turning kid’s into snowflakes. My older brother grew up during the war and witnessed actual horrors. He seemed to survive.
Notashandyta · 23/07/2021 20:21

4 and 5 year olds watching peppa pig and paw patrol, 10 year old being taught in detail about gas Chambers etc.

They aren't capable of processing that without at least some of them suffering mentally as a result imho

Hankunamatata · 23/07/2021 20:23

There was a some parent outrage at school as teacher wanted to read the boy in stripped pyjamas to the class of same age. I brought dc audiobook, he enjoyed it asked some pertinent questions then went into read 'the boy at the back of the class'

beastlyslumber · 23/07/2021 20:23

Just reading your further comments, OP. It does sound like the teacher is "killing them with terror". I think reading Anne Frank or learning about how children drew butterflies on the walls of the camps might be more appropriate than graphically describing the hell of the gas chambers.

Talk to the teacher or the head of year, or both together, ask about the materials, and see what you think.

warmandtoasty2day · 23/07/2021 20:23

sir i'm very old school in the respect kids are over protected and wrapped in cotton wool and some adults are snowflakes nowadays, but I really don't think they need to know about doestic abuse and murders, it's not necessarily known what's going on in their home lives.

Original poster
restbetweentheelements · 23/07/2021 20:23

These are interesting replies and I expected the mix. The subject matter was all familiar to him, he has books on history, he knew about the terror, the holocaust. Other than the charlie hebdo murder. Why tell the children what happened in gruesome detail? The detail is difficult for adults to process.

It was the way the teacher was only focusing on the terror which I thought was bizarre. For the holocaust, the recommendation for 9 and 10 year olds the advice is talk about what happened, personal responsibility and choices. Not about the grim details.

And to only talk about murder and death in the news talks?

@Geamhradh how do they disagree, can you give details?

OP posts:
RaindropsOnRosie · 23/07/2021 20:25

10 is a very good age to learn these things- they're not quite old enough to truly understand the huge impact of it but are old enough to take it seriously. There were children younger than him experiencing those things first hand, so who are we to decide who's old enough to hear about it?

Flossing · 23/07/2021 20:25

In my opinion not too young to learn about these events. But they must be taught in an age appropriate way.

For example via some first hand descriptions of survivors, reading of books like the boy in the striped pyjamas, and images of suitcases seized at Auchwitz are reasonable. The scale of these sorts of images can teach pupils a lot. Showing images of bodies I feel is not appropriate, but you haven't stated that's what is happening.

The painting from the French Revolution isn't a photograph, I wouldn't have a problem with that. It's also a historical source and it's really common to use paintings to teach about topics from this era.

So in short...the subject matter for age 10 I feel is fine. I would just keep an eye on how it's being taught given what your child drew.

For GCSE history crime and punishment through time is an option, as is medicine through time. Maybe this is a sort of take on this? Like Terror through time? Again I feel that's fine as long as taught in an age appropriate way

patkinney · 23/07/2021 20:26

@restbetweentheelements

Dc's yeargroup are 9/10 His teacher this year has told them in graphic detail about:
  • gas chambers in german concentration camps
  • terror in french revolution by showing painting of chopped off head with blood held up next to guillotine and details of what happened
  • all about the charlie hebdo teacher terrorist attack in france
  • murders in news how many women were killed by partners - they chatted about the news on fridays and dc said it was never about life affirming things (he said nice or interesting things)
DC has been affected by it, and he drew a picture of his teacher with a guillotine and children and he wrote "our teacher is killing us with terror" (he draws a lot, is quite expressive generally...) - i found the drawing screwed up in the bottom of his bag

YANBU - the teaching is not appropriate, the subject matter of treatment of Jews etc is ok in age appropriare way is okay but focusing on terror aspects is not
YABU - no problem with this

If YANBU, then WWYD
I remember learning about medieval torture methods when 10, at school. Is there some sort of theory about terror being useful for 10 year olds???

I'm conflicted about this. The Holocaust, yes (without graphic images of course). No problem with the French Revolution - that will be paintings and drawings obviously. Are you sure he was 'taught' about the Charlie Hebdo thing though, I'd be surprised about that. Could that not have come from chats in the playground with a friend who has parents who chat politics at home?

I was also surprised about that other subject under discussion: 'murders in the news & how many women were killed by partners', may I ask: is his teacher a woman? Perhaps she has had something in her past related to this and has let it get to her.

I work with this age group and do discuss the news, but I use Newsround on BBC iPlayer and then ask if anyone has any concerns. This teacher could do with some advice from a mentor I think - I hope if you decide to take it further you do so mindful that this is a teacher who may just need some advice and it is not a career threatening situation, in my opinion. But I was sorry to read about the picture you found in your DCs bag, that must have upset you.

warmandtoasty2day · 23/07/2021 20:27

horrible histories on tv or in books aren't graphic though. 12 is the right age for the gritty stuff as kids process more imo. I've had six kids so i can go on experience.

Vodkabulary · 23/07/2021 20:27

OP no I wouldn’t be bothered not at 9/10. I knew that and more by then it’s part of my families history. My grandpas 13 brother and sisters plus most of his aunts uncles and extended family died in treblinka and Chelmno

My grandmothers family met their deaths Belzec.

My son knows many of the details because
He’s inquisitive and asked. It’s our history and honestly yes I think water down what the holocaust was is dangerous it add a to the general opinion that the fate of the Jewish people wasn’t important and it’s ok for causal anti-Semitism to still be a thing.

beastlyslumber · 23/07/2021 20:31

I think there are too many people advocating turning kid’s into snowflakes. My older brother grew up during the war and witnessed actual horrors. He seemed to survive.

It must be so traumatising for children like your brother to witness the horrors of war first hand, and to experience such overwhelming fear for themselves and their families. It is just unbearable, and the fact that many children survive it doesn't mean it doesn't have a significant impact on their lives, and on their children, and even beyond.

I think that tells us that asking children to witness the horrors of war, even when they are removed in time and space from those wars, is to be done carefully and sensitively. What do we want the outcome to be? Responsible adults who understand the meaning of good of evil. How do we best achieve that? That's the question.

Pixxie7 · 23/07/2021 20:31

I think it’s good for children to learn how awful the holocaust was, we are living in an ever increasing violent world. We need to teach people to be kind to each other.

Staffy1 · 23/07/2021 20:33

I heard about the horrors of the Holocaust at about 7 or 8 from my best friend who had relatives that had been sent to the gas chambers.

Mamanyt · 23/07/2021 20:34

I did say YANBU, but only because you specified that the teacher was showing very graphic photos. I do think that he is old enough to begin HEARING about this, certainly.

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