10 year olds learning about the holocaust etc

[restbetweentheelements]

Dc's yeargroup are 9/10
His teacher this year has told them in graphic detail about:

• gas chambers in german concentration camps
• terror in french revolution by showing painting of chopped off head with blood held up next to guillotine and details of what happened
• all about the charlie hebdo teacher terrorist attack in france
• murders in news how many women were killed by partners - they chatted about the news on fridays and dc said it was never about life affirming things (he said nice or interesting things)

DC has been affected by it, and he drew a picture of his teacher with a guillotine and children and he wrote "our teacher is killing us with terror" (he draws a lot, is quite expressive generally...) - i found the drawing screwed up in the bottom of his bag

YANBU - the teaching is not appropriate, the subject matter of treatment of Jews etc is ok in age appropriare way is okay but focusing on terror aspects is not
YABU - no problem with this

If YANBU, then WWYD
I remember learning about medieval torture methods when 10, at school. Is there some sort of theory about terror being useful for 10 year olds???

I think 10 is too young to learn about the holocaust in graphic detail. My daughter read Anne Frank's Diary at that age, so we had to touch on the subject, but I kept it very brief and focussed on the persecution aspect and her life in her hide-out instead.

Dds school took the gr group to the national holocaust museum where they met a survivor. He told them his story, obviously aware he was speaking to 10/11 year olds. Dd said it was horrible to hear but she felt better knowing he had survived and not everyone had died.
Many parents kicked off about the kids watching Goodnight Mr Tom, we watched this when dd was 7 or 8, and I've got to admit I was a bit twitchy about them watching The Boy In The Striped Pyjamas.

Just because your child is focussing and obsessing on the 'terror' doesn't mean that that is all the teacher is teaching.

The teacher may not have intended to talk about certain things, but it is very difficult when interested children ask questions that extends their learning. I teach the primary history curriculum, including WW2, and sometimes you are thrown by unexpected questions.

Are the other parents reporting that their children are experiencing difficulties? I certainly wouldn't expect a 10yo to be so upset by talk of a guillotine - horrible histories have a super episode about the French Revolution.

Have you talked to the teacher about how he is dwelling on certain pieces of information?

It can certainly be taught in an age-appropriate way. The National Holocaust Centre has a very interesting visit for primary aged children that certainly does not shy away from the facts.

I wonder whether the statistics about women being murdered by their partners came up in a PSHE or DARE lesson. We do start to talk about healthy relationships and recognising when a relationship is unhealthy in Year 6.

I am 40 we studied similar things at similar ages. I still remember learning about the holocaust and alot of the horrible parts of ww2. My son has just finished year 5 and also done the same. My daughter did to, with graphic detail for all of us. The graphic detail is required imo.

I have no issue with it at all. I remember feeling pretty shocked at what people had done to each other in the past. I am glad I did.

You have no idea if the graphic detail is all that was taught. It like wasn't but was the main bit that's impacted your son. Or even the bit that your son and his friends found most engaging.

The whole 'he is terrorising us with terror', to me sounds like a 10 years old classroom joke.

If you are so concerned you should have spoken to the school. Ors peak to them when it opens up and clarify wether this is the focus.

I used to be surprised at what the children were taught in school. My daughter came home crying at age 4 after the first week of school because the teacher had told my daughter that one day my daughter would die.
The child are prepared for horrors through fairy tales and stories. Look at the witch in hansel and gretal who locked up the children to fatten them up to eat them. I remember a David Wallam play where the grandmother was being poisoned every day. Charlie and the chocolate factory where there greedy children had bad things happen to them.

I doubt that the teacher only spoke about the terror of it all. That's the parts that have stuck out to your son. I doubt the teacher walked into class and just suddenly launched into a speech about the different ways people were tortured back then. You weren't there, you have no idea what they actually talked about as well, it may have only been a brief part of it but it's stuck with your son. Unfortunately that is kind of the point of this.

You can't shield your son forever from the world and considering how he reacted, if sounds like that's what you are doing. He needs to know these things, they aren't nice to hear about it, but how else do we stop it happening again?

We learned about the holocaust in year 5 at school so age 9/10. I was 9. They showed us photos of bodies, of very unwell people immediately after liberation and the famous photo of a man taken moments before the Nazis shot him.

We also met a holocaust survivor who talked to us about his experiences, how he survived and about all his children and grandchildren.

I read Anne Frank's diary at the same time.

Everything made an impression on me, as it should.

Children need to know the depths to which humanity can sink.

@user16395699 this thread was only about talking about terror, of course there were other things taught in the year, all of which were fine. The thread is only about teaching about terror. The fact that she thought up fantastic science projects does not detract from the fact that she told the class that a teacher had recently been beheaded by a terrorist.

I am quite surprised that so many posters think terror is ok for 9/10 year olds. The fact that some children experience terror first hand doesn't mean that all children should experience it first or second hand. And no, exposing children to terror does not mean that they will understand it and not do it to anyone else. Just as hitting does not teach a child to not hit.

The holocaust guidelines state that when teaching about the holocaust to 9 and 10 year olds, you should not teach about the details of the camps or the killing, you should focus on other elements, and introduce other aspects as children mature.

The issue isn't how my dc reacted - or how I reacted when I was told about medieval torture methods - the AIBU was whether the terror should be taught to 9/10 year olds.

The Boy in the Striped pajamas is not appropriate and is specifically recommended agaisnt by the Holocaust Trust. It embeds many misconceptions and is inaccurate. Please don't use it in primary.

How can you teach the Holocaust without talking about the deaths?

I am of the camp that doesn’t see the point in hiding things from children. Much better to discuss things with them in a way they can understand for their age then to suddenly decide “ye your an adult now here’s all the horrors of the world”

Just a reminder about what the guidelines are for teaching about the holocaust to 9/10 year olds, which was quoted a couple of times upthread

^"It should be evident that both the emotional impact and
intellectual complexity of learning about the Holocaust
dictate that great care is necessary when selecting
suitable content for primary school students. The Trust
very strongly believes that it is not appropriate for them
to directly study the murder of Europe’s Jews during
the Second World War. In particular, the horrifying
history of the Nazi extermination camps and other
mass killing operations should be avoided"^

DC asked me not to talk to the teacher about it, by the way. He also said that some of the children felt like him, and others didn't seem to mind at all and came up with gruesome stories of their own to tell the class. One child came in every week with a new murder in the news to talk about, in the last few weeks of term.

DC is usually accurate when relaying stories about what happened in class, his teacher would agree with that, from what she has said to me.

[quote restbetweentheelements]@user16395699 this thread was only about talking about terror, of course there were other things taught in the year, all of which were fine. The thread is only about teaching about terror. The fact that she thought up fantastic science projects does not detract from the fact that she told the class that a teacher had recently been beheaded by a terrorist.

I am quite surprised that so many posters think terror is ok for 9/10 year olds. The fact that some children experience terror first hand doesn't mean that all children should experience it first or second hand. And no, exposing children to terror does not mean that they will understand it and not do it to anyone else. Just as hitting does not teach a child to not hit.

The holocaust guidelines state that when teaching about the holocaust to 9 and 10 year olds, you should not teach about the details of the camps or the killing, you should focus on other elements, and introduce other aspects as children mature.

The issue isn't how my dc reacted - or how I reacted when I was told about medieval torture methods - the AIBU was whether the terror should be taught to 9/10 year olds.[/quote]
I agree OP. Our children won't automatically turn into Nazis just because they only learn about the holocaust at age 14 or 15. It makes more sense to do it then because they will have the processing power and the historical context of how it all happened. I was 9 when I learned about WWII, which resulted in me having nightmares and a fear of being bombed for years.

Sorry I misread. I though your son was 10 bit in yr 10.

YABU

my 12 year old Dd knows about the holocaust. Your yr 10 DS definitely should!!! He's old enough!!!!

With the incessant spread of holocaust-denial and the fact that many (most?) UK adults have no awareness of what the Nazis did, it's vitally important that schoolchildren learn this. It's equally vital that they learn that it's still happening in some parts of the world and a significant number of people want it to happen here.

"DC is usually accurate when relaying stories about what happened in class, his teacher would agree with that, from what she has said to me."

Just ask her then.

But I think you will find the points you raised were not taught in isolation. They were set in the context of the wider lesson or sequence of lessons. In some cases, they may have been a minute out of an hour long lesson. They may have arisen as a child asked a question.

Your child isn't lying. He is telling you his perception of the lesson, where those distressing details were writ large and took on disproportionate significance in his mind, gaining momentum at home when you displayed some disapproval or doubt about the teacher.

Such lessons are rooted in the NC and a lot of discussion goes into the level of detail that is appropriate, and which resources to use.

For me, the fact that your son is upset at a painting of the French Revolution, suggests some unusual sensitivity. I wouldn't go in from a position of thinking that the teacher is not acting appropriately, but from a position of wanting to support your son. I'm not suggesting that you ignore it btw. I have only ever had one complaint about how WW2 is taught in our school, and that little boy did go on to need an awful lot of support, so it is certainly best to investigate.

And I would not pay too much heed to your son saying that other children feel the same.

Of course children will be affected by hearing this stuff - unless you are a monster, it's upsetting. The thing is whether it's a 'normal' response to processing this stuff or not.

Ds2 did the boy in the striped pyjamas in primary. I had no problem with this. Is it just you who is outraged in principal, or is he upset by it / scared? On which case sit him down and talk him through it calmly.

As for the more recent news- this is all stuff that is on the news everyday. Do you/ your child never see or hear the news on tv or radio in their general life?

Children growing up without any concept of what's going in in the world is not great.

I'm on the fence. Of course history is important but I do think 10 is just a bit too young for the gory details. If you can't be worry free and ignorant to all the violence in word aged 10 then when?
My ds had to do a presentation on WW2 in p7, so age 11/12 and that seemed more appropriate (and was actually very interesting for him as his great grandad was a POW so he learnt a lot about his own family).
They learnt a bit before then but nothing graphic.

"Not about the grim details."

But teacher didn't give grim details. She plainly told them the facts. How else are you supposed to explain it. Her sentences were factual, succinct abc to the point. They sound perfect to me.

"In particular, the horrifying history of the Nazi extermination camps and other mass killing operations should be avoided"

I completely disagree with this. The more we avoid confronting people with the horror of what happened, the more likely it is to happen again.

Completely agree op. Kids don’t need to know the levels that humanity can sink to at the age of 10 years old. There is plenty of time to share the horrific details when they are older. Yanbu.

I don't think any of this is wrong in itself as long as the lessons are well thought out and children are allowed to discuss and process things in a supportive environment and their parents should be informed so they can also support their children at home with their reactions.

But all of those things you mention OP in one year sounds overwhelming and as if the teacher has a personal obsession or mission. And the reaction of your child suggests this. I doubt he's the only one.

Do these ‘too young’ children not read newspapers or at least watch the news? Do you not discuss current affairs with them?

How are children meant to learn about the world around them, about morality, about safety if we shield them from reality?

The holocaust was beyond horror, but genocide continues today. How do children grow to understand the treatment of the Rohingya or the Christians and Yazidis in Syria?

If people don’t understand the impact of fascism and how it becomes embedded and acceptable through learning from a young age.