10 year olds learning about the holocaust etc

[restbetweentheelements]

Dc's yeargroup are 9/10
His teacher this year has told them in graphic detail about:

• gas chambers in german concentration camps
• terror in french revolution by showing painting of chopped off head with blood held up next to guillotine and details of what happened
• all about the charlie hebdo teacher terrorist attack in france
• murders in news how many women were killed by partners - they chatted about the news on fridays and dc said it was never about life affirming things (he said nice or interesting things)

DC has been affected by it, and he drew a picture of his teacher with a guillotine and children and he wrote "our teacher is killing us with terror" (he draws a lot, is quite expressive generally...) - i found the drawing screwed up in the bottom of his bag

YANBU - the teaching is not appropriate, the subject matter of treatment of Jews etc is ok in age appropriare way is okay but focusing on terror aspects is not
YABU - no problem with this

If YANBU, then WWYD
I remember learning about medieval torture methods when 10, at school. Is there some sort of theory about terror being useful for 10 year olds???

My child learned about the Holocaust recently at 10/11 and I think it’s the best age to teach these things in full Graphic horror. Get kids young and teach them what is unacceptable, develop empathy and respect for diversity young. Ensure they know why war is bad and why we cannot allow it to happen again. As a child I was taken to auschwitz and i was shown the living accommodation, and the personal effects, I stood in the gas chamber and it did scar me for life but in a way that meant I knew we could not allow this to happen again. It was as positive an experience as it was a difficult one. I wasn’t desensitised to violence on tv, in films or in games by then and I was seeing real life. It was impossible to disassociate it from reality. I’m not sure I’d have felt the same at 20 having seen horror films and violence on the news.

I plan to take my daughter when we’re allowed to travel.

When I see 40something fat males wandering around London waving a single arm in the air in a nazi style Salute at any non white skinned person they see, I wish they’d been shown the horrors of the Holocaust young and maybe they’d have developed some empathy and understanding instead of the bigotry and racism we’re seeing rising in the UK now.

You totally are being unreasonable and half added your own views on everything you commented on. You clearly want there to be an issue.

I read Anne Frank's diary at that age. I'd exhausted the reading scheme several years before and my mum re-read it at the same time so we could discuss it. Children can learn an awful lot from WW2 and the Holocaust at that age. I do remember putting something on the TV admit the concentration camps when I was about the same age, my dad was working away my brother was at camp so I was watching a film in my parents from with my mum, it finished and she went to lock up and get the cat in and I was giving through the channels. I can still see those images of piles of emaciated bodies now and I've studied the period numerous times since, but the visual imagery at that age really stuck with me.

We definitely learnt about the Holocaust at age 9/10 when I was in school, early 2000's. YABU I think.

@Alpenguin

My child learned about the Holocaust recently at 10/11 and I think it’s the best age to teach these things in full Graphic horror. Get kids young and teach them what is unacceptable, develop empathy and respect for diversity young. Ensure they know why war is bad and why we cannot allow it to happen again. As a child I was taken to auschwitz and i was shown the living accommodation, and the personal effects, I stood in the gas chamber and it did scar me for life but in a way that meant I knew we could not allow this to happen again. It was as positive an experience as it was a difficult one. I wasn’t desensitised to violence on tv, in films or in games by then and I was seeing real life. It was impossible to disassociate it from reality. I’m not sure I’d have felt the same at 20 having seen horror films and violence on the news.

I plan to take my daughter when we’re allowed to travel.

When I see 40something fat males wandering around London waving a single arm in the air in a nazi style Salute at any non white skinned person they see, I wish they’d been shown the horrors of the Holocaust young and maybe they’d have developed some empathy and understanding instead of the bigotry and racism we’re seeing rising in the UK now.

I know what you mean, but I just dont think that terrorising children is the way to teach empathy and right from wrong and and diversity.

The men you refer to are dysfunctional because they have been terrorised themselves, they were not brought up with empathy or positive awareness of the world around them, nor taught about why war happens, and why some men and women hurt each other. It is largely ignorance. Hitler's ideas as set out in mein kampf were fundamentally ignorant, incorrect, not coherent.

Showing graphic details to this age is going to be counterproductive. The guidance about teaching these subjects says that at 9 and 10 it shoudl be about talking about empathy and equality and morals and diversity with examples in outline not graphic detail.

Judging by the other thread, it looks like not all teachers are aware of the guidance. I hadn't seen other thread until it was linked here.

YABU, he needs to learn it. But I’d make sure he knew that he was able to discuss his worries with you.

My reception aged DD was taught about the crucification in great detail at Easter. She had nightmares for the whole week leading up to the next Tuesday because Tuesdays are RE days so much so that for the next Tuesday I took her into school in the afternoon so she was reassured that RE had already taken place on the morning and she was guaranteed to miss it.
When I mentioned it to the class teacher I was told that they'd only touched on the subject which cannot have been truthful because DD was able to tell me in great detail, through her tears, what they'd covered.

I don't think that the subject matter in itself is inappropriate but from the way in which you described it, the teacher seems to be focussing on violent imagery. I'd really need to know more about the context and what else was covered in the lesson. If this has been going on for the school year, have you raised it in order to find out more!

I'm quite old and found out about forced labour in WW2 when I was about 6, because the parent of a friend had been a victim. Her health was ruined by this experience and it limited her ability to parent. This was discussed very openly and it was reality to all who knew her. There would have been no point in censoring this information.

My dd has known about the Holocaust from about the same age. All of her grandfather's immediate family were killed and again, it was reality.

Similarly the thing about discussing DV is that there could be children in the class for whom this is reality - and they may not realise that it is wrong, unless it is discussed.

I still remember in primary 5 (so about 9) and a little boy in class saying something about Jesus, when he was tied to the cross... our teacher, a very religious type (and the most unpleasant person you’d ever meet) gave a full explanation of the crucifixion (the rest of us were at the thing bit - not sure where he got that from).

Those who don't learn from the past are doomed to repeat it.

This wiping our kids backsides these days, the bubble wrap so they don't feel intense negative emotions is what is creating these young adults with no resilience.

@Faranth

He's not in year 10, is he? He's 10 years old? So year 5 at primary?

I don't remember learning about ww2 and the holocaust until secondary.

As far as I remember history at primary was mostly ancient history - Romans / Egyptians etc.

I learned about it aged 12. It had a profound impact on me for all sorts of reasons, I sort of grew up a bit more.

I'm not sure I could have coped aged ten, I was very sensitive to anything horrific that I read or saw on TV, couldn't get images out of my mind or sleep properly.

Each child is different.

My grandparents were active in the war and my parents were kids/teens during it, so it was a living history and part of their lives. It was mentioned (not much by those who saw fighting) and we (kids) were well aware of the horrors.

Maybe the teachers think that children like all the blood and guts in history?

I’m really glad I wasn’t taught these horrific details at primary school, and I hope my child won’t be.

I was taught about these events at secondary school, complete with some harrowing textbook photos of executions and emaciated bodies lying in a mass grave. By this age, I was more emotionally resilient and had a much better understanding of the historical context and of human psychology.

What’s the hurry?

Oh and I remember WW2 veterans coming on to give us take at primary too.

YABU

My children were taught about the atrocities of Concentration Camps during WW2 at Primary school. It’s part of the curriculum. Horrific without doubt but everyone needs to learn about it to make sure it doesn’t happen again. I’d go as far as to say everyone should visit Auswitch. Absolutely barbaric and harrowing 🥺 We all need to do what we must to make sure these type of atrocities remain in the past and at the forefront of our thinking.

@gamerchick

Those who don't learn from the past are doomed to repeat it.

This wiping our kids backsides these days, the bubble wrap so they don't feel intense negative emotions is what is creating these young adults with no resilience.

I completely agree.

It's ok for children to feel sad or upset about things that happened in the past. Better that than presenting them with a sanitised Disney version of history with anything upsetting edited out.

@EileenGC

I was also surprised about that other subject under discussion: 'murders in the news & how many women were killed by partners', may I ask: is his teacher a woman? Perhaps she has had something in her past related to this and has let it get to her.

The (potentially) female teacher's past has nothing to do with teaching about women being murdered by their partners.

I didn't grow up in the UK so I don't know how the evening news are done here, but when I was little, the national number of domestic violence victims was regularly updated on TV. And still is to this day. There used to be 1-2 victims each week, they were reported in the evening news each and every single time. This is not some obscure, developing country. It's one of the biggest countries in Europe, so fully civilised.

These women deserved to be remembered, us as kids needed to know how often this happens. Little boys needed to be taught it's an atrocity to kill your partner. It's not the best piece of news for a 10 year old to hear, but that's definitely old enough to see how both 18 and 75 year old men, and every age and background in between, are capable of killing their spouses. Simply because they are women.

Don't kids in the UK see these things on the news anyway?

The point I was making was that if this teacher is female (and the chances are high - most primary school teachers are) she may have had something traumatic in her past happen, that caused her to teach this topic in a way that went beyond what is normal and acceptable for this age group.

I did not mean any offence when I said this, it was pure conjecture on my part.

P.S. as regards this: "I didn't grow up in the UK, so I don't know how the evening news are done here, but when I was little, the national number of domestic violence victims was regularly updated on TV. And still is to this day." No, we don't have that system in the UK.

Can't say I'd be best pleased, mainly because DS aged 6 loves graphic detail and all I'd hear for days is about people dying 🤦🏻‍♀️ gruesome deaths on horrible histories is his favourite and he doesn't shut up about them lol

Age 10 does seem a little young for "graphic content" underating it happend ok. But maybe not the ins and outs and gas champers till the early teens would be my favoured position.

This is the first generation of children who will be one generation away from the vast majority of living relatives of the Holocaust and similar which makes it even more important they understand.

You can’t properly teach the Holocaust without touching on the deaths and how they happened because that is such a key part of things

I've thought this for a while.

Yes the Holocaust is important but it's just not necessary at 10years old. No wonder we have so many depressed children if their reading matter is gas chambers and concentration camps.

History is one thing, but the teacher sounds like a ghoul.
The hardest part of the holocaust is understanding why. The last horrors of despair the victims went through is not something kids should be encouraged to dwell on.

Yes the Holocaust is important but it's just not necessary at 10years old. No wonder we have so many depressed children if their reading matter is gas chambers and concentration camps

My ds was shown the film clips of concentration camps at 9/10. I was ok with this.

Were you in the lessons? You are listing all of the content your son has remembered but that doesn’t mean that is all the teacher talked about or covered in the lessons. Are you sure that the teacher only focused on the ‘terror’ or is that just all your son focused on?

Whilst 10yo is probably a little early to learn about Mengele twins and Zyklon B, I do think that children should learn about what happened but more importantly, why it should never be allowed to happen again.