NHS Pay award

[Thedogscollar]

So this is what they have come back with from the insulting 1% offer by increasing it to a paltry 3%.
Workers are leaving in their droves we have a massive deficit in nursing and midwifery which is worsening daily.

I work in the South East of England, we are hugely affected with shortages in staffing, virtually every 12.5 hrs shift I do we cannot have a break due to work acuity and lack of staff. We have junior staff in tears with the pressure put upon them.
We aren't paid for our break and we are hard pushed to get it back as time owing. We cover empty shifts on the bank over and above our contracted hours as we know how hard it is for our colleagues in there.
We are all reaching breaking point some are there now and gone off sick. It is exhausting physically but more so mentally as you know before you even get to work what it's going to be like.

I have payslips going back 10 plus years and in that time my salary has barely changed and I am at the top of my band.

Our management team held an urgent meeting the other day to discuss the crisis going on within our trust with staffing and work acuity. Nothing was really dealt with just more management speak.

This government has to look after the NHS staff that have given so much and still are. Staff retention is in crisis and by offering this paltry pay rise they are doing nothing to stop this disaster becoming a momentous catastrophe resulting in even worsening patient safety levels being eroded even more.

How on earth can this government justify 30 plus billions for track n trace and HSS yet not offer a decent pay rise to NHS workers and in that I include care workers too.

Boris and co should hang their heads in shame but as per they think they are doing so well in offering us anything.

I'm sure I will have people coming on now to say they have lost jobs and taken paycuts and for that I am truly sorry but this cannot be used as an arguement for a huge group of essential workers being financially and emotionally abused by their employer which is exactly what this government are doing.

@Blossomtoes

It seems that newly qualified nurses in Australia have a starting salary of £38k - no wonder so many of our nurses are emigrating

Yep same in NZ, more British nurses and doctors than you could shake a stick at! It wasn’t just the pay either, they feel more valued and respected.

'Have you ever done cpr three times a week as a lorry driver or tram driver? It isn’t quite the same. Lol'

No one said it is the same? You said 'We could literally kill someone if we make a mistake. What other job' and there are plenty of jobs where people could be killed if mistakes were made. Stop being so dramatic and changing your story constantly. Lol.

I think what a lot of nurses posting don’t seem to realise is that very few organisations have perfect staffing levels or pay rises.

I’ve posted earlier about the cafe my DD works on cutting staffing, but I’ve also just heard today that the office at the DC’s school is cutting staff by half due to covid budget pressures.

The remaining staff will be expected to adapt and manage.

'same in NZ, more British nurses and doctors than you could shake a stick at! '

And yet there's more nurses from NZ and Aus than you can 'shake a stick' at in London! Funny that. Maybe folk just like to travel?

Kittyswhiskers...exactly! Actually it's quite nice chatting to other HCPs on here knowing that they understand.
If I think of my shifts, last week I was looking after a baby on an oscillator, with infusions lining either side of the incubator and spent the whole night administering different blood products and diuretics because baby's clotting was deranged.
The week before my baby kept desaturating to 20%, I literally had to bag and suction the baby every other hour.
And then you get a tradesperson in who charges a not unreasonable £20-22 an hour, and you think, bloody hell! I earn three quarters what you earn... I'm in the wrong job here! Lol

@GreenLakes

I think what a lot of nurses posting don’t seem to realise is that very few organisations have perfect staffing levels or pay rises.

I’ve posted earlier about the cafe my DD works on cutting staffing, but I’ve also just heard today that the office at the DC’s school is cutting staff by half due to covid budget pressures.

The remaining staff will be expected to adapt and manage.

People will survive without carrot cake. They won’t survive without nurses. Teaching unions will need to stand up for their staff.

BMA are balloting Consultants on industrial action, it will only be working to rule, but even that could bring a hospital to its knees. Why? Because hospitals run on the goodwill of staff doing extra every day - well that’s not going to happen forever if they don’t feel valued.

@GreenLakes

I think what a lot of nurses posting don’t seem to realise is that very few organisations have perfect staffing levels or pay rises.

I’ve posted earlier about the cafe my DD works on cutting staffing, but I’ve also just heard today that the office at the DC’s school is cutting staff by half due to covid budget pressures.

The remaining staff will be expected to adapt and manage.

The remaining staff have been adapting and coping for many, many years, but there's a limit. I expect most people if they had a heart attack right now wouldn't even consider that there wouldn't be any HCPs to take care of them, it probably wouldn't cross their minds. But that's the reality in the not too distant future as more and more leave, and I don't blame them. Its weird how people don't just say ah I don't think they need one, but get so defensive about it, pulling out all the whataboutery, trying to tell them what their jobs and pay structures are like, and how they should be grateful for what they've got. Pretty sad really, I think as its free at point of use people just take it for granted. May as well privatise it, at least the pay will be better.

To make comparisons with other countries accurate though, you need to look at cost of living. I believe that Aus salaries are often higher but the cost of living is much higher too

Honestly, I hear ya @Angelcupcake
I think some of the posters on here are on a wind up. They just haven’t got a clue. I actually think with a mindset like they have; they wouldn’t last a day on a ward. So I’ve chosen not to reply to a few of them. You can’t argue with stupid Even my most stable patients have thrown me a curve ball when you’re thinking the shift is fine and dandy. I’ve spent one of my most recent shifts trying to correct a patients electrolytes, back to back infusions and by the time one infusion had finished something else had dropped and needed correcting. And that was just one patient!! I was actually with them most of the shift so for once my feet didn’t hurt but my mind was absolutely exhausted trying to constantly work out weight and infusion rates and all sorts.

@GreenLakes

I think what a lot of nurses posting don’t seem to realise is that very few organisations have perfect staffing levels or pay rises.

I’ve posted earlier about the cafe my DD works on cutting staffing, but I’ve also just heard today that the office at the DC’s school is cutting staff by half due to covid budget pressures.

The remaining staff will be expected to adapt and manage.

Not the SCHOOL OFFICE? That is DEFINITELY comparable with a hospital ward. 🙈🤣 you’re embarrassing yourself honestly lol.

Start on 25k for a newly qualified band 5 ward nurse. Scope to earn 45k as a band 8 and stay clinical (albeit with courses and study as you would expect with promotion) potential to double that if you go down the management routes.

Nursing pay does not keep pace with other graduate careers - even the recent pay award document noted this.

Band 8 nurses are rare and extremely senior. Most nurses will not reach this grade. The existence of a very few senior nurse roles at this pay range does not mean that the huge majority of nurses (who will be band 5 and 6) are not underpaid.

'The week before my baby kept desaturating to 20%'

Desaturated to 20%, blimey that sounds very stressful I'm surprised you only had to bag and suction you'd think being that extremely hypoxic they'd be in cardiac arrest.

Nobody disputes a starting salary of 25k is not a lot. However, if you are a picu nurse I'm sure there are plenty of senior staff, nurse consultants, specialist picu practitioners that type of thing that are on twice that.

Kittyswhiskers... It is so ridiculous it's funny... I might go and work in the DDs cafe 😁

@Kittyswhiskers @Angelcupcake (and others I may have missed) - I admire your composure dealing with some of these comments! As a fellow NHS colleague (not nursing - mental health background), I very much appreciate all you do and as a band 8 if I could redistribute my 3% to you I would!!

@JaniieJones

'The week before my baby kept desaturating to 20%'

Desaturated to 20%, blimey that sounds very stressful I'm surprised you only had to bag and suction you'd think being that extremely hypoxic they'd be in cardiac arrest.

Nobody disputes a starting salary of 25k is not a lot. However, if you are a picu nurse I'm sure there are plenty of senior staff, nurse consultants, specialist picu practitioners that type of thing that are on twice that.

Babies tend to go into respiratory arrest. The heart rate generally drops to about 50. If you can bag them up in time, the heart rate normally recovers. But yes, sometimes you do need to start CPR. We try not to let things get to that stage though.

[quote feelingmehtoday]**@Kittyswhiskers* @Angelcupcake* (and others I may have missed) - I admire your composure dealing with some of these comments! As a fellow NHS colleague (not nursing - mental health background), I very much appreciate all you do and as a band 8 if I could redistribute my 3% to you I would!! [/quote]
Thank you 😊. Making tea now, so going to go. Thank you all my other NHS colleagues

@Angelcupcake

Kittyswhiskers... It is so ridiculous it's funny... I might go and work in the DDs cafe 😁

Ah yes. Minimum wage. No pension, sick pay or holiday pay. Great idea! 🙄

I have a lot of respect of proactive hcps, the kind that see the 25k salary as a starting salary only.

Honestly it’s best to ignore goady daft comments. They are making themselves look like tits I actually really love my job, I take such pride in that I (and us other HCPs) have literally saved hundreds of lives over the years, either directly and indirectly, that’s something nothing and no one can take away. Imagine how many more devastated families there would be, we’ve prevented that! It doesn’t matter what anyone else thinks, that’s fact. That’s what you have to remember when you go in for handover and just know it’s going to be a shit storm for the next 12.5 hours 🤣🤣

Why not compare with the army? Privates earn around £20k but then the career structure is steady and about another 13 possible rungs - up to £123k at the top. No reason why nurses shouldn't specialise and have effectively doctor status in their specialism.

Or what about a comparison with the police? A constable starts at £21k - but there are 7 grades and at the top of those the pay band is £41k. Promotion to Sergeant starts just under £44k, goes up two more grades to £46k and then there are two more major promotions (inspector and chief inspector) with another 7 grades in them.

These professions seem to recognise that a career structure with increases in pay are motivational. I guess it depends which ones are dominated by men and which by women.

@JaniieJones

I’m aware it’s your opinion, but what is it based on, sick pay?

You are put on a monitoring assessment of you have more than two occasions off in 6 months.

I can’t help but read your posts and think you are very naive. If you even looked at the inflation rates, you would see this isn’t even a pay rise. I just can’t quite comprehend how you have come to the conclusion that 3% is enough?

@KTheGrey

Why not compare with the army? Privates earn around £20k but then the career structure is steady and about another 13 possible rungs - up to £123k at the top. No reason why nurses shouldn't specialise and have effectively doctor status in their specialism.

Or what about a comparison with the police? A constable starts at £21k - but there are 7 grades and at the top of those the pay band is £41k. Promotion to Sergeant starts just under £44k, goes up two more grades to £46k and then there are two more major promotions (inspector and chief inspector) with another 7 grades in them.

These professions seem to recognise that a career structure with increases in pay are motivational. I guess it depends which ones are dominated by men and which by women.

Exactly this!

Do try reading this kitty instead of chucking out childish insults because you are losing the argument, again.

I don't think that a bigger pay increase will stop the ticking time-bomb that is the staffing crisis in the NHS. That's not to say I don't think NHS staff deserve a bigger pay rise, they absolutely do. I just don't think the staff retention argument holds water.

I took a significant pay cut to get out of the NHS a few years back (best decision I ever made btw) and I know many others who have done the same since. No amount of money could have persuaded me to stay. Of course, a whopping pay increase would make staff feel more valued and boost their morale for a while, and it might persuade people who had been thinking of leaving to hold off on making plans. But the dismal work/life balance, the poor working conditions, the frustration of ever increasing red-tape preventing you from doing the right thing by your patients, the back-door privatisation of services leading to sudden changes in terms and conditions, being verbally abused and physically assaulted by people who think they can take their frustrations with the system out on you because they "pay your fucking wages, you know", the blame-culture and endemic workplace bullying that exists unchecked and unchallenged
in many NHS trusts...all these things will still result in HCP's burning out and ultimately deciding it's just not worth it.

Privates in the army and police officers don’t start their career with a degree like nurses do. Also, a nurse isn’t the route to become a doctor - they are different professions! There is however a clear structure in nursing - band 5 nurse, can increase to band 6 (both with structured pay increments). Band 7 Sister, band 8a-c matron, deputy chief nurse/head of clinical governance etc type roles 8D and chief nurse - on board of exec directors and paid over £100k per year.

@KTheGrey

Why not compare with the army? Privates earn around £20k but then the career structure is steady and about another 13 possible rungs - up to £123k at the top. No reason why nurses shouldn't specialise and have effectively doctor status in their specialism.

Or what about a comparison with the police? A constable starts at £21k - but there are 7 grades and at the top of those the pay band is £41k. Promotion to Sergeant starts just under £44k, goes up two more grades to £46k and then there are two more major promotions (inspector and chief inspector) with another 7 grades in them.

These professions seem to recognise that a career structure with increases in pay are motivational. I guess it depends which ones are dominated by men and which by women.

Progression up the pay scales as an NHS clinician, though, is quite different to these examples because it comes with an associated reduction in hands on clinical work (generally speaking). In my own field of work, if I go higher than an 8a I lose a lot of direct patient contact and I will have more of a managerial / supervisory role of other staff. This isn't why I do the caring profession I do - I want to hold onto my passion which is to be hands on in mental healthcare. If I seek out and progress to an 8b or 8c role, I'll lose a lot of this. It's often the passion to remain clinically immersed that keeps NHS staff at the lower bands, too.

@KTheGrey

Why not compare with the army? Privates earn around £20k but then the career structure is steady and about another 13 possible rungs - up to £123k at the top. No reason why nurses shouldn't specialise and have effectively doctor status in their specialism.

Or what about a comparison with the police? A constable starts at £21k - but there are 7 grades and at the top of those the pay band is £41k. Promotion to Sergeant starts just under £44k, goes up two more grades to £46k and then there are two more major promotions (inspector and chief inspector) with another 7 grades in them.

These professions seem to recognise that a career structure with increases in pay are motivational. I guess it depends which ones are dominated by men and which by women.

Or you can join the army as a nurse and start on £33k (along with heavily subsided accommodation and meals, GYHP, away from home pay just for starters) and get a £30k joining bonus which in this scenario is comparable to what a graduate professional gets in the NHS.

If you're comparing entrant level soldiers then better to compare to HCA who earn a few grand less than a private, but can also join with no formal qualifications as such. Military promotions are based on annual reviews and not additional qualifications, whereas a HCA to progress would have to do a degree to be a nurse or other HCP, and erm well...earn a lot less than a lance jack (most people are at least that within 3 years, a lot are above that) in the military. If you join as an officer you start on £33k. Graduate police roles now exist and admittedly the starting pay is comparable, I think they should get a rise too.

I don't think the comment about which are male dominated and which are female dominated says what you think it does.