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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To fall out with friend/landlord who has outstayed their welcome

150 replies

Mintypylonsfryingsurplus · 19/07/2021 15:29

Hope you wise lot can advise if I am being unreasonable. Will bullet point as to not drip feed...

Was meant to buy a house with DH last spring
I got Covid and ended up with Long covid (Only recently been discharged from hub)
DH was furloughed too so ended up skint and surviving on deposit money as not entitled to help from government
Landlord wanted to rent house to a family member so we had to find somewhere else at short notice.
Friend who wanted to live abroad said we could rent his property and if we liked it and got ourselves straight could buy it at some point so he could use the money to purchase a property abroad
So September last year, we moved in and have a full AST tenancy agreement. Deposit in a scheme all done correctly.
We are laid back people for the most part and we offered to store his motor home in back garden and his bed/household and garden items should we decide not to buy/ continue with tenancy and he needed to stay there at some point.

As I started to rehabilitate and I thought we would buy the property, we started to decorate (It was tired, and bare no lightshades/curtains etc scuffed and bit grimy and basic)
My DH who is a builder and joiner put fitted wardrobes in all 3 bedrooms and improvements too numerous to mention. Had it not been done by my DH and used companies approx 3.5K of improvements/decorating.

I when feeling better some days as not working did extensive cleaning gardening etc.

Friend /Landlord messages from abroad. The country he is staying in was going into lockdown and he was not very well needed hospital etc he was coming back. As a friend (worried about him) in a pandemic etc I offered that he could come and stay as long as he needed to and get himself sorted.

He returned with his large motor home (he has two) and stayed in a spare room with full use of the house as a guest. after 3 or so days he spoke to me that his plans had changed and he wanted to release the money from his house (owned outright) I said that was find and now we are getting on our feet I would look into getting a mortgage.
Brokers were charging 350 quid so I used an online free service and had a mortgage agreed in principle.

He went into hospital briefly but could not find anything wrong with his stomach at all except lazy bowel and depression.

In April me and DH saw a conservatory on FB selling site which we bought cheaply but took 12 hours to dismantle. We checked with Friend first that he would be okay to erect this as we planned to buy house in future. He agreed to this providing we followed regulations etc.

Friend/Landlord comes out of hospital it is clear he is not in a good place mentally. Will not leave the house, so I do all shopping/ collect laxatives etc from chemists.
Starts to ask when we are doing foundations for Conservatory? Feel a bit pressured so DH takes some annual leave to dig a 18 inch trench and collects material approx 450 quid with concrete mixer etc.

Friend/Landlord changes mind about selling house - not in a good place needs more time etc.

I tell him that now we have a mortgage in place we will look for an alternative home due to our ages and its not a problem. But we will not put the conservatory up now and take it with us. He is not happy due to this, says we have spoilt his garden etc. So we put all back to how it was minus a water feature (dilapidated) and some grass patches which are growing back.

It is clear at this point he is not going anywhere soon. After 4 weeks he pays 100quid into my account as he has been living here and using everything except buyin himself a small amount of fresh food, but uses washing powder/sugar etc.

As stated we are not wealthy right now due to my health etc.

He becomes increasingly picky, told not to vape in house, use tumble drier at certain times/ cook bacon as it makes him feel sick on and on.

Asking when we are taking a small amount of rubbish to tip/ on and on picking

A few weeks ago I was to do a house swap with my parents as we live 4 hours away from each other and catch up with friend and family who we had not seen due to Covid for over a year.

He refused to leave the house so my mum could stay. He said it broke the tenancy agreement and his insurance. My Mum had to cancel many of her 70th birthday plans as a result.

As my son and partner who have worked al through the pandemic as key workers were coming with us we had no choice but to hire a caravan at a cost of 750 quid at short notice. I told friend that I would not pay rent that month due to his refusal to leave . He agreed after a lengthy argument.

Every house we look at has gone to full and final bids and we have been gazumped. As the tension is unbearable my son and his partner have offered for us to live in their flat unti we buy a house.

Frind/landlord then says he wants a receipt for the caravan to claim on his landlords insurance. I told him he needs to leave I am told end of July.

Stop stalking to him as he twists everything I say. He is a very difficult man. Both his children do not speak to him nor he step kids. He has one other friend.

He is now claiming that as I invited him to stay he is a lodger!

My tenancy ends in 7 weeks. So I found out my rights a few weeks back. He has been harassing me when are we leaving. He clearly wants his house back but we have lots to put in storage as the flat is small and who knows how long a house sale could take to go through

I feel harrassed and unsafe in my own home. He confronted me today saying when I was away he spoke to solicitor that he has rights to stay there as a lodger and I need to give him 4 weeks notice!

I have also spoken to a solicitor and am well aware of my tenancy rights. He seemed to back track then and siad he was leaving at end of month to stay with his Nephew for a month.

I told him not to come back until tenancy agreement and notice period ahd ended, and anyway he has a large motor home to live in.

He claims as he gives me 100 a month he has right. he has been here 15 weeks and given me 200 so far which equates to 13.33 a week. WHERE COULD YOU LIVE FOR THAT. He said he only has two showers a week?

Told him no more friendship, he needs to be gone asap and not return. Will store his stuff and camper van on the understanding my deposit gets returned in full and we never speak again.

My DH is at the end of his tether with the conflict and I feel pretty intimidated too.

OP posts:
Googlewasmyidea1 · 19/07/2021 15:36

Well, I think you were a bit silly spending all that money updating the place when you only had his word for it that he'd sell it to you.

PersonaNonGarter · 19/07/2021 15:41

You’ve been a fool but live and learn. Move out move on.

It’s ultimately his house not yours. And he was right about the house swap.

LagunaBubbles · 19/07/2021 15:41

If you're not that well off why on earth are you spending money on a house that doesn't belong to you!

Mintypylonsfryingsurplus · 19/07/2021 15:42

We actually spent about 1500 as mentioned my DH is a builder and we did it all ourselves. Yes I agree it was silly. I was too trusting. But having moved twice in a year wanted to be settled etc
It has been hell actually, like the film Pacific Heights. He argues about how much he owed for his shopping. Never bought us so much as a jar of coffee. Tries to wriggle out of paying the 100 quid a month as I stayed in a caravan. He has broken every tenancy law their is. But thank you for pointing out my foolishness.

OP posts:
Mintypylonsfryingsurplus · 19/07/2021 15:43

@PersonaNonGarter

You’ve been a fool but live and learn. Move out move on.

It’s ultimately his house not yours. And he was right about the house swap.

If he is right about the house swap, how come he refused to leave. Surely that is the same thing if the tenancy agreement is in our name. They are family members not an air B and B
OP posts:
Everydayisawindingroad · 19/07/2021 15:43

Vaping in the house is really unpleasant. It may not be all the chemicals and nicotine of standard cigarettes but it’s still pretty unpleasant to breathe.
Sorry you’ve been mucked around by him and are no feeling unsafe at home, nobody deserves that.

WhoNeedsaManOfTheWorld · 19/07/2021 15:44

Yabu to get embroiled renting/buying off a friend and sinking money into a house you don't own

Mintypylonsfryingsurplus · 19/07/2021 15:46

@LagunaBubbles

If you're not that well off why on earth are you spending money on a house that doesn't belong to you!
because we honestly believed that we would own it at some point and give the restrictions wanted a nice home for family and friends to stay in especially my Grandson who lives far away. Am I supposed to live in poor housing? Most landlords would be delighted that tenants take pride in their home and improve it/ pay rent and bills on time!
OP posts:
Billandben444 · 19/07/2021 15:47

You've got yourselves in a bit of a mess and I'd get some professional advice asap. It sounds as though this 'friend' was only an acquaintance and the arrangement should have been on a legal footing from the start. Get legal advice (and take it) and chalk it up to experience - an expensive one as you won't get a penny back for the work you've done on his property.

Mintypylonsfryingsurplus · 19/07/2021 15:52

Billandben444 yes I have now and apparently is contravening peace and enjoyment clause of agreement.
The money spent on house I just write off but to feel stabbed in the back from someone I believe to have been a friend is very hard.
I just want some peace and quiet not to be stalked by someone in my own space and feel so on edge.

OP posts:
LumpyandBumps · 19/07/2021 16:02

I am a landlord and this man is really pushing his luck.
I suggest you refer him to the part of your Tenancy Agreement relating to ‘Quiet enjoyment’ of the property. You have an Assured Tenancy and as your landlord he is harassing you.
He could well be a lodger, although there was no formal agreement or even informal one for him to pay you a regular sum, but so what?
Lodgers have very few legal rights.
Whilst I am usually loathe to suggest that anyone is forced out of where they are living, this man is taking you for a ride.
Put his notice to quit in writing. Give him whatever timescale you wish. I think there may be something to do with his rent payment period ( not that he is paying regularly), but often 28 days in default.
If he has not moved out then change the locks when he is out.
If he wants his property back he can follow the due legal processes, and may be more willing to negotiate fairly to bring the tenancy to an end earlier.

21Bee · 19/07/2021 16:08

I think you need to get legal advice really. There are a number of issues, the main one being under the AST he should be granting you exclusive possession but he isn’t.

He risks by storing his things/living there being liable for the full council tax bill as he has the greatest interest in the property. The case law for this is Goremsandu v Harrow.

PyjamaFan · 19/07/2021 16:12

This sounds horrendous.

I've voted YABU because it was very foolish of you to A. Rent from a friend, B. Let him stay with you, C. Spend money on the house before you bought it.

I think you need to find somewhere new to either rent or buy and next time treat it as a purely business arrangement.

Jasmeen · 19/07/2021 16:16

Whatever about your rights, are you not just tempted to move out, draw a line under it, and move on? Find somewhere else to rent and go?

21Bee · 19/07/2021 16:23

@LumpyandBumps The OP doesn’t have an assured tenancy, she has an assured shorthold tenancy. They are completely different things and have tenants have completely different rights depending on which tenancy you have.

Being a landlord counts for literally nothing and is why you need to get actual professional advice.

Mintypylonsfryingsurplus · 19/07/2021 16:25

Lumpy thank you for your perspective. Yes that really is the case and I am now pursuing that. Told him I am fearful of him and he needs to go. He now saying his small camper van is off road and cant get the part so needs longer here. His other motor home in the back garden is fine, but he will not leave the house. He also has an air rifle in his bedroom which he left in full view with door open, to scare me perhaps?

21Bee He gets council tax for free paid for by DWP as he is on ESA support rate and also PIP DLA. He charges me 20 quid on top of rent for this though. Think that is why he does not want to sell it now as if we buy it he will be over the savings allowance for claiming full benefits?

Jasmeen - we fully intend to buy as soon as we stopped getting gazumped. He has said that I need to pay until the tenancy agreements ends in September anyway, which of course I will do. I need to give 4 weeks notice but he has to give more which he disputes. Its clear that he tried to con us out of getting a conservatory put up. I just need him gone. Its affecting my mental health.

OP posts:
21Bee · 19/07/2021 16:31

@21Bee It’s illegal for him to do this, he may be exempt but you are not. If you are paying him for the council tax he should be paying it based on who lives there.

2bazookas · 19/07/2021 16:32

Being a tenant does NOT give you the right to arrange a houseswap.

You sound incredibly entitled.

Mintypylonsfryingsurplus · 19/07/2021 16:32

21Bee do you know if having as AST means you still have a right to quiet enjoyment? Is there massive differences we been here nearly a year?

OP posts:
OneHundredTrees · 19/07/2021 16:38

@2bazookas

Being a tenant does NOT give you the right to arrange a houseswap.

You sound incredibly entitled.

Entitled? Give over. OP is not the unreasonable one here, she acted in good faith and trust.

Absolutely horrendous situation for you, OP. As it's so complex I can't give advice but I really feel for you.

Mintypylonsfryingsurplus · 19/07/2021 16:39

@2bazookas

Being a tenant does NOT give you the right to arrange a houseswap.

You sound incredibly entitled.

It was an informal arrangement between me and DH and MY MUM AND DAD to swap with now money changing hands so I could see my Grandchild and family who I have not seen for nearly a year due to distance and pandemic. Clearly that makes me really entitled!!

As a tenant am I also not allowed to have people over? Or do the normal things that people do in their homes such as use a washing machine?
But thank you for your empathetic feedback, in what has been an absolutely hellish time being played cat and mouse and forced from my home. Cheers

OP posts:
Hoppinggreen · 19/07/2021 16:39

There are lines blurred all over the place here and it’s caused all sorts of issues
He’s your friend AND landlord, which can be problematic
Then you let him move into his own house as a Lodger, no idea how that works
You spent money on a house that isn’t yours with no guarantee you would ever own it
Whole thing is a mess

21Bee · 19/07/2021 16:40

Assured tenancies generally started before 1997. People do still issue them but it rare as tenants have a lot more rights than those with an AST.

Assured shorthold tenancies do allow for quiet enjoyment. This is the description of the model clause regarding quiet enjoyment - Tenant’s right to quiet enjoyment. The right to ‘quiet enjoyment’ means that the tenant has the right to live in the property, as their home, without interference from the landlord or anybody else. The landlord cannot make unannounced visits and must comply with the terms of this agreement and the law in all dealings with the tenant. Even where the landlord or his agents give notice of visits to the property, if the visits are very frequent and/or are made for little good reason, this may amount to a breach of the tenant’s right to quiet enjoyment and could amount to harassment

Mintypylonsfryingsurplus · 19/07/2021 16:46

Well he is no longer my friend. I will not be two faced and have told him that a friendship is impossible moving forward.
I did not let him move in as a lodger. I thought it was temporary until he got himself sorted as we live in such hard times. My biggest mistake was not setting guidelines/ boundaries talked about what he should have contributed financially etc.
He realy thinks I should just bankroll him while his benefits and rent give him excess of 1500 quid a month. Clearly we are not even worth 100 a month to help with gas electric broadband Netflix water dried food goods that he helps himself to?
I would like to think that if I fel on hard times I would get support but I would not take the piss out of someone else's kindness and generosity.

OP posts:
LumpyandBumps · 19/07/2021 16:49

[quote 21Bee]@LumpyandBumps The OP doesn’t have an assured tenancy, she has an assured shorthold tenancy. They are completely different things and have tenants have completely different rights depending on which tenancy you have.

Being a landlord counts for literally nothing and is why you need to get actual professional advice.[/quote]
Yes, you are quite right. It is an AST. I missed out a word. The covenant of quiet enjoyment applies to AST’s.
I mentioned being a landlord to illustrate why I felt OP’s landlord to be unreasonable.
Of course OP should seek legal advice regarding any suggestions made.