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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To fall out with friend/landlord who has outstayed their welcome

150 replies

Mintypylonsfryingsurplus · 19/07/2021 15:29

Hope you wise lot can advise if I am being unreasonable. Will bullet point as to not drip feed...

Was meant to buy a house with DH last spring
I got Covid and ended up with Long covid (Only recently been discharged from hub)
DH was furloughed too so ended up skint and surviving on deposit money as not entitled to help from government
Landlord wanted to rent house to a family member so we had to find somewhere else at short notice.
Friend who wanted to live abroad said we could rent his property and if we liked it and got ourselves straight could buy it at some point so he could use the money to purchase a property abroad
So September last year, we moved in and have a full AST tenancy agreement. Deposit in a scheme all done correctly.
We are laid back people for the most part and we offered to store his motor home in back garden and his bed/household and garden items should we decide not to buy/ continue with tenancy and he needed to stay there at some point.

As I started to rehabilitate and I thought we would buy the property, we started to decorate (It was tired, and bare no lightshades/curtains etc scuffed and bit grimy and basic)
My DH who is a builder and joiner put fitted wardrobes in all 3 bedrooms and improvements too numerous to mention. Had it not been done by my DH and used companies approx 3.5K of improvements/decorating.

I when feeling better some days as not working did extensive cleaning gardening etc.

Friend /Landlord messages from abroad. The country he is staying in was going into lockdown and he was not very well needed hospital etc he was coming back. As a friend (worried about him) in a pandemic etc I offered that he could come and stay as long as he needed to and get himself sorted.

He returned with his large motor home (he has two) and stayed in a spare room with full use of the house as a guest. after 3 or so days he spoke to me that his plans had changed and he wanted to release the money from his house (owned outright) I said that was find and now we are getting on our feet I would look into getting a mortgage.
Brokers were charging 350 quid so I used an online free service and had a mortgage agreed in principle.

He went into hospital briefly but could not find anything wrong with his stomach at all except lazy bowel and depression.

In April me and DH saw a conservatory on FB selling site which we bought cheaply but took 12 hours to dismantle. We checked with Friend first that he would be okay to erect this as we planned to buy house in future. He agreed to this providing we followed regulations etc.

Friend/Landlord comes out of hospital it is clear he is not in a good place mentally. Will not leave the house, so I do all shopping/ collect laxatives etc from chemists.
Starts to ask when we are doing foundations for Conservatory? Feel a bit pressured so DH takes some annual leave to dig a 18 inch trench and collects material approx 450 quid with concrete mixer etc.

Friend/Landlord changes mind about selling house - not in a good place needs more time etc.

I tell him that now we have a mortgage in place we will look for an alternative home due to our ages and its not a problem. But we will not put the conservatory up now and take it with us. He is not happy due to this, says we have spoilt his garden etc. So we put all back to how it was minus a water feature (dilapidated) and some grass patches which are growing back.

It is clear at this point he is not going anywhere soon. After 4 weeks he pays 100quid into my account as he has been living here and using everything except buyin himself a small amount of fresh food, but uses washing powder/sugar etc.

As stated we are not wealthy right now due to my health etc.

He becomes increasingly picky, told not to vape in house, use tumble drier at certain times/ cook bacon as it makes him feel sick on and on.

Asking when we are taking a small amount of rubbish to tip/ on and on picking

A few weeks ago I was to do a house swap with my parents as we live 4 hours away from each other and catch up with friend and family who we had not seen due to Covid for over a year.

He refused to leave the house so my mum could stay. He said it broke the tenancy agreement and his insurance. My Mum had to cancel many of her 70th birthday plans as a result.

As my son and partner who have worked al through the pandemic as key workers were coming with us we had no choice but to hire a caravan at a cost of 750 quid at short notice. I told friend that I would not pay rent that month due to his refusal to leave . He agreed after a lengthy argument.

Every house we look at has gone to full and final bids and we have been gazumped. As the tension is unbearable my son and his partner have offered for us to live in their flat unti we buy a house.

Frind/landlord then says he wants a receipt for the caravan to claim on his landlords insurance. I told him he needs to leave I am told end of July.

Stop stalking to him as he twists everything I say. He is a very difficult man. Both his children do not speak to him nor he step kids. He has one other friend.

He is now claiming that as I invited him to stay he is a lodger!

My tenancy ends in 7 weeks. So I found out my rights a few weeks back. He has been harassing me when are we leaving. He clearly wants his house back but we have lots to put in storage as the flat is small and who knows how long a house sale could take to go through

I feel harrassed and unsafe in my own home. He confronted me today saying when I was away he spoke to solicitor that he has rights to stay there as a lodger and I need to give him 4 weeks notice!

I have also spoken to a solicitor and am well aware of my tenancy rights. He seemed to back track then and siad he was leaving at end of month to stay with his Nephew for a month.

I told him not to come back until tenancy agreement and notice period ahd ended, and anyway he has a large motor home to live in.

He claims as he gives me 100 a month he has right. he has been here 15 weeks and given me 200 so far which equates to 13.33 a week. WHERE COULD YOU LIVE FOR THAT. He said he only has two showers a week?

Told him no more friendship, he needs to be gone asap and not return. Will store his stuff and camper van on the understanding my deposit gets returned in full and we never speak again.

My DH is at the end of his tether with the conflict and I feel pretty intimidated too.

OP posts:
Mintypylonsfryingsurplus · 19/07/2021 19:41

Yes its hugely stressful, but the guy obviously loves having the last word, stating his 'rights' while harrassing me. Half an hour ago he sent an email notice to quit for November (tenancy finishes in September) so the LEGAL 2 months notice to leave but worded it as though its a favour! I will be responding back of course as now need to keep a paper trail for my own protection. In meantime I am earnestly looking for a little place for me and DH to get the f*?@ out of here.
Earlier he complained there was no room in the fridge and could he switch HIS fridge on in garage we are storing!!!!! He has a large RV motor home in driveway with a fridge wtaf

OP posts:
Biscoffbiscou · 19/07/2021 20:13

@givemebooks

Actually with your contract whats to stop you calling the police and having him removed?

He has no legal right to be there at this time?

I would do this tonight!

Yep, totally. Your landlord can’t just set up camp in your spare room hissing at you to leave and asking you to buy him laxatives.
Biscoffbiscou · 19/07/2021 20:15

@Mintypylonsfryingsurplus

Yes its hugely stressful, but the guy obviously loves having the last word, stating his 'rights' while harrassing me. Half an hour ago he sent an email notice to quit for November (tenancy finishes in September) so the LEGAL 2 months notice to leave but worded it as though its a favour! I will be responding back of course as now need to keep a paper trail for my own protection. In meantime I am earnestly looking for a little place for me and DH to get the f*?@ out of here. Earlier he complained there was no room in the fridge and could he switch HIS fridge on in garage we are storing!!!!! He has a large RV motor home in driveway with a fridge wtaf
Cheeky twat. Can you call the police OP and have him removed? He’s trespassing.
TheSilveryPussycat · 19/07/2021 20:28

@Rioja81

Does it matter if he is entitled to free CT though? Shouldn't the OP be paying it?
This puzzled me too. Were you paying Council Tax before he came back?
Mintypylonsfryingsurplus · 19/07/2021 21:16

@Rioja81 yes 20 per month to him on top of rent

OP posts:
OneHundredTrees · 19/07/2021 21:31

He must give you 6 months notice, for a start. After 6 months, he will then need to start legal proceedings to evict you; at the moment there are huge backlogs and this can take up to 12 months.

www.gov.uk/private-renting-tenancy-agreements/your-landlord-wants-to-end-your-tenancy

Your priority though is to have him removed from the property so you can feel safe again; seek advice from Shelter or the police.

OneHundredTrees · 19/07/2021 21:40

Also, I'm not sure if you're aware, but an AST can only be issued if the landlord does not live in the property. So it's tricky.

If he insists he is a lodger, he is permitted reasonable notice to leave - this is 28 days. Keep a record of the notice.

If he is not a lodger, you could have him removed. If you want to take this route, I would state to the police that that he is not a lodger, as he has made no regular payment, only one-off contributions, and is not the legal occupier.

TheSilveryPussycat · 19/07/2021 21:50

[quote Mintypylonsfryingsurplus]@Rioja81 yes 20 per month to him on top of rent[/quote]
But you were the ones living there, so you should have been paying the Council Tax yourselves. Did you inform the council when you moved in? Regardless of his health, he would not have paid Council Tax on a property he didn't live in (unless he owned it, and it was empty).

Biscoffbiscou · 19/07/2021 21:51

@OneHundredTrees

Also, I'm not sure if you're aware, but an AST can only be issued if the landlord does not live in the property. So it's tricky.

If he insists he is a lodger, he is permitted reasonable notice to leave - this is 28 days. Keep a record of the notice.

If he is not a lodger, you could have him removed. If you want to take this route, I would state to the police that that he is not a lodger, as he has made no regular payment, only one-off contributions, and is not the legal occupier.

It sounds like he didn’t live in the property when the tenancy agreement came into effect. So not a live-in landlord.

AFAIA, notice for lodgers starts at a week – a longer notice period is considered reasonable if this reflects the rental payment period – so if a lodger pays rent on a monthly basis, a month is considered fair. However, if you don’t have any written agreement and he can’t provide evidence of regular rental payments to you, a week’s notice should be more than sufficient.

Although by the same token you can argue rightly that he’s a guest not a lodger and ask him to leave immediately.

Biscoffbiscou · 19/07/2021 21:54

TheSilveryPussycat

Mintypylonsfryingsurplus
@Rioja81 yes 20 per month to him on top of rent
But you were the ones living there, so you should have been paying the Council Tax yourselves. Did you inform the council when you moved in? Regardless of his health, he would not have paid Council Tax on a property he didn't live in (unless he owned it, and it was empty).

It’s not uncommon for landlords to cover council tax for rented properties. Many offer it included in the rent.

OneHundredTrees · 19/07/2021 21:56

Although by the same token you can argue rightly that he’s a guest not a lodger and ask him to leave immediately

This is definitely the route I'd be taking!

TheSilveryPussycat · 19/07/2021 22:39

£20 x 12 = £240 - sounds a bit low. Did you perhaps mean £20 per week?

Regardless who pays, don't residents have to register with the Council? (I am ignorant of how CT works if landlord pays it - and a bit worried that OP may have accidentally accrued a CT debt)

Mummyoflittledragon · 19/07/2021 23:15

@21Bee

It doesn’t really matter that you haven’t got a written contract, by him paying you rent and you accepting that rent you have created a legal contract.

It’s been a few years since I’ve dealt with residential tenancies, I specialise in agricultural tenancies, but I should think you need to give him notice. I’d try to write him a notice to quit with a one month notice period. It’s really tricky because I don’t think it’s likely that a landlord can become a lodger of his own tenanted property but a residential law specialist should be able to unpick it all. I’d be inclined to say him moving back in means he’s taken possession of the house and has inadvertently made you the lodgers but definitely seek out specialist advice, the cheapest option would obviously be to leave ASAP.

I was wondering this also. But in the same token, he doesn’t have the right legally to take possession so op should Chuck him out.

I agree op needs specialist advice.

21Bee · 19/07/2021 23:38

@Mummyoflittledragon If he’d just turned up one day and moved in I’d agree however he moved in with the agreement of OP and she has been accepting money from him for bills.

You can end an AST at anytime with the agreement from both parties. As the landlord has moved in with agreement, I’d see that as ending the AST as the circumstances no longer satisfy the legal terms of an AST (i.e exclusive occupation). The case of Street vs Mountford shows that for a lease to be a lease, the occupier must have exclusive occupation without interruption from an owner. In this case OP has allowed interruption from the owner. It’s an important case in property law because it shows whatever title the agreement is given, it’s the circumstances that matter.

I could totally be wrong but I think that OP has indirectly given up her AST as it no longer meets the conditions and is occupying on a licence.

Mintypylonsfryingsurplus · 19/07/2021 23:44

I have not given up my AST he moved in by coercion and then started making wild claims.
He has paid in total £1.90 a day it hardly covers bills! You couldnt rent space for a tent on a campsite fir that. Its a token amount to cover teabags and milk! The going rate is £389 a month!

OP posts:
Mintypylonsfryingsurplus · 19/07/2021 23:46

In any case sent him a very long reply saying he got a week to get out and if he claims lodger status he owes me £1035 retrospectively so far he upstairs not replying......not good at all.

OP posts:
Canigooutyet · 19/07/2021 23:51

So he's acknowledging he's your lodger?
Tomorrow get yourself off to a diy place and buy a lock. Come home change lock and kick him out.
What's he going to do? Call the police to say his tenant won't let him move back into the house?
Have a look at the laws for lodgers.

Mintypylonsfryingsurplus · 20/07/2021 00:31

Its me thats disputing his claim he is a lodger! He is a guest I took pity on during a pandemic who outstayed his welcome, freeloaded off us then refused to leave claiming he is now our lodger!. At no point have I acknowledged that repeatedly told him he is a guest here at our goodwill. Paying equivilent of £1.90 a day does not qualify you as a lodger it covers sundries is all.

OP posts:
IAmAWomanNotACis · 20/07/2021 01:27

As others have said, lodgers have naff all rights. Not sure why he's trying to claim that.

Seriously though - your health is more important than this. Chalk it up to experience, and get you and your H out of there pronto.

You can probably get the police to come and remove his gun, because that should be in a locked cabinet. telling them he's waved it at you would be hard to prove false

Doesn't your rent agreement with you as tenants exclude you from sub-letting? That would be good evidence to prove that he isn't your lodger.

What would happen if you and DH stopped paying him any rent? A section whatever eviction takes several months to enforce...

Rudeppl · 20/07/2021 01:35

You foolish woman. Love and learn from this mistake.

Rudeppl · 20/07/2021 01:35

*live

PerciphonePuma · 20/07/2021 02:18

@pineapplecat21

He's committing benefit fraud, he isn't entitled to full benefits whilst taking rent off his tenant, you are also paying towards council tax when he's exempt? Also fraud. Not to mention the amount of landlord laws he's breaking... id threaten to report him and have him removed by the police if he's not gone by the end of today. He has no legal right to be there.
Not necessarily. As he is a home owner, he will only be getting the non-Means Tested version of ESA support payment (OP says he gets DLA/PIP too, but neither are means tested either)

You can claim non-means tested benefits even if you're a millionaire, provided you meet the health requirements and pass the assessments

PerciphonePuma · 20/07/2021 02:19

@MrsMoastyToasty As I've just said above - Not necessarily. As he is a home owner, he will only be getting the non-Means Tested version of ESA support payment (OP says he gets DLA/PIP too, but neither are means tested either)

You can claim non-means tested benefits even if you're a millionaire, provided you meet the health requirements and pass the assessments

Mintypylonsfryingsurplus · 20/07/2021 06:55

I am not sure about whether they are means tested? But surely ESA PIP status means you are genuinely incapacitated? Not able to drive 4000 miles to several countries, to ride bikes, fish climb and swim?

OP posts:
pineapplecat21 · 20/07/2021 07:33

ESA is means tested, he shouldn't be getting full whack. It depends what he claims pip for but no he shouldn't be doing active sports etc if you get pip you tend to need someone to support you and your disabilities.

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