Meet the Other Phone. A phone that grows with your child.

Meet the Other Phone.
A phone that grows with your child.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To fall out with friend/landlord who has outstayed their welcome

150 replies

Mintypylonsfryingsurplus · 19/07/2021 15:29

Hope you wise lot can advise if I am being unreasonable. Will bullet point as to not drip feed...

Was meant to buy a house with DH last spring
I got Covid and ended up with Long covid (Only recently been discharged from hub)
DH was furloughed too so ended up skint and surviving on deposit money as not entitled to help from government
Landlord wanted to rent house to a family member so we had to find somewhere else at short notice.
Friend who wanted to live abroad said we could rent his property and if we liked it and got ourselves straight could buy it at some point so he could use the money to purchase a property abroad
So September last year, we moved in and have a full AST tenancy agreement. Deposit in a scheme all done correctly.
We are laid back people for the most part and we offered to store his motor home in back garden and his bed/household and garden items should we decide not to buy/ continue with tenancy and he needed to stay there at some point.

As I started to rehabilitate and I thought we would buy the property, we started to decorate (It was tired, and bare no lightshades/curtains etc scuffed and bit grimy and basic)
My DH who is a builder and joiner put fitted wardrobes in all 3 bedrooms and improvements too numerous to mention. Had it not been done by my DH and used companies approx 3.5K of improvements/decorating.

I when feeling better some days as not working did extensive cleaning gardening etc.

Friend /Landlord messages from abroad. The country he is staying in was going into lockdown and he was not very well needed hospital etc he was coming back. As a friend (worried about him) in a pandemic etc I offered that he could come and stay as long as he needed to and get himself sorted.

He returned with his large motor home (he has two) and stayed in a spare room with full use of the house as a guest. after 3 or so days he spoke to me that his plans had changed and he wanted to release the money from his house (owned outright) I said that was find and now we are getting on our feet I would look into getting a mortgage.
Brokers were charging 350 quid so I used an online free service and had a mortgage agreed in principle.

He went into hospital briefly but could not find anything wrong with his stomach at all except lazy bowel and depression.

In April me and DH saw a conservatory on FB selling site which we bought cheaply but took 12 hours to dismantle. We checked with Friend first that he would be okay to erect this as we planned to buy house in future. He agreed to this providing we followed regulations etc.

Friend/Landlord comes out of hospital it is clear he is not in a good place mentally. Will not leave the house, so I do all shopping/ collect laxatives etc from chemists.
Starts to ask when we are doing foundations for Conservatory? Feel a bit pressured so DH takes some annual leave to dig a 18 inch trench and collects material approx 450 quid with concrete mixer etc.

Friend/Landlord changes mind about selling house - not in a good place needs more time etc.

I tell him that now we have a mortgage in place we will look for an alternative home due to our ages and its not a problem. But we will not put the conservatory up now and take it with us. He is not happy due to this, says we have spoilt his garden etc. So we put all back to how it was minus a water feature (dilapidated) and some grass patches which are growing back.

It is clear at this point he is not going anywhere soon. After 4 weeks he pays 100quid into my account as he has been living here and using everything except buyin himself a small amount of fresh food, but uses washing powder/sugar etc.

As stated we are not wealthy right now due to my health etc.

He becomes increasingly picky, told not to vape in house, use tumble drier at certain times/ cook bacon as it makes him feel sick on and on.

Asking when we are taking a small amount of rubbish to tip/ on and on picking

A few weeks ago I was to do a house swap with my parents as we live 4 hours away from each other and catch up with friend and family who we had not seen due to Covid for over a year.

He refused to leave the house so my mum could stay. He said it broke the tenancy agreement and his insurance. My Mum had to cancel many of her 70th birthday plans as a result.

As my son and partner who have worked al through the pandemic as key workers were coming with us we had no choice but to hire a caravan at a cost of 750 quid at short notice. I told friend that I would not pay rent that month due to his refusal to leave . He agreed after a lengthy argument.

Every house we look at has gone to full and final bids and we have been gazumped. As the tension is unbearable my son and his partner have offered for us to live in their flat unti we buy a house.

Frind/landlord then says he wants a receipt for the caravan to claim on his landlords insurance. I told him he needs to leave I am told end of July.

Stop stalking to him as he twists everything I say. He is a very difficult man. Both his children do not speak to him nor he step kids. He has one other friend.

He is now claiming that as I invited him to stay he is a lodger!

My tenancy ends in 7 weeks. So I found out my rights a few weeks back. He has been harassing me when are we leaving. He clearly wants his house back but we have lots to put in storage as the flat is small and who knows how long a house sale could take to go through

I feel harrassed and unsafe in my own home. He confronted me today saying when I was away he spoke to solicitor that he has rights to stay there as a lodger and I need to give him 4 weeks notice!

I have also spoken to a solicitor and am well aware of my tenancy rights. He seemed to back track then and siad he was leaving at end of month to stay with his Nephew for a month.

I told him not to come back until tenancy agreement and notice period ahd ended, and anyway he has a large motor home to live in.

He claims as he gives me 100 a month he has right. he has been here 15 weeks and given me 200 so far which equates to 13.33 a week. WHERE COULD YOU LIVE FOR THAT. He said he only has two showers a week?

Told him no more friendship, he needs to be gone asap and not return. Will store his stuff and camper van on the understanding my deposit gets returned in full and we never speak again.

My DH is at the end of his tether with the conflict and I feel pretty intimidated too.

OP posts:
Mintypylonsfryingsurplus · 19/07/2021 16:53

Thank you for clarifying that 21Bee - He is being very scary today asking me when I am going what are my plans and saying he spoke to a solicitor etc.
He wonders why I do not want to be friends anymore! We never signed a lodgers agreement with him, we never said he was coming back to live here. But today he thrust a text message in front of me where I said he can come back and get himself sorted??
Surely as a friend I would do this without formally making him a lodger?
Even a house share he would have to pay minimum of 350 per month inc bills and have an arrangement for this?
I told him today if he has lodger status then he owes me at least 950 quid for the last 15 weeks!
He is literally checking every loophole going to 'get me' I despair

OP posts:
Meraas · 19/07/2021 16:54

I actually can't read this thread past the first post anymore as I am angry on your behalf and also incredulous that you did all that work on a house you don't own or have a long and secured fixed tenancy for.

I wish you all the best OP, ditch the friend and I hope you find a beautiful home Flowers

StartingGrid · 19/07/2021 16:54

Surely his concerns about invalidating insurance etc could also be affected by his being there too? He sounds incredibly entitled, your CF radar must have been broken when you came across this guy!

Zilla1 · 19/07/2021 17:04

Don't be hard on yourself, OP. Things can get tricky when friendship and money mix and it sounds like the deterioration in his MH may have made this unpredictable. It sounds like his last remaining friend might struggle in the future. Good luck with house purchases.

Zilla1 · 19/07/2021 17:06

When he is rational and asking about why you no longer want to be a friend, it might be interesting to get him to set out his actions and decisions and explain how these have been reasonable, let alone friendly. Did he lose contact with his family before his MH deterioration?

Mintypylonsfryingsurplus · 19/07/2021 17:15

Looking back his mental health has always been questionable - we travelled together a few years back before I got married and he was very controlling even telling me how to drink a bottle of water, had to wash my feet free from sand before entering beach hut, so I came home. We patched up friendship but perhaps I am too forgiving.
He has been out of touch with his family for at least 6 years. It is always them, never him. I think he is lonely and seeing me so happy in this house with family and friends calling me has made him even more bitter. He literally sits all day on his phone plotting and scheming. Its very tiresome.
Yes my CF radar has been bleeping like mad. I can honestly say I have never met anyone so stingy in my entire life. He has a constant score sheet in his mind and will throw in your face well I washed the dishes etc. if challenged.
I feel so sorry for him but disgusted that he could be so cunning. Now his travels on DWP money have come to an end he forcing me out of a home I am legitimately entitled to be in until November.

OP posts:
TheArtfulCodger · 19/07/2021 17:24

I would be very wary of antagonising this man OP. It sounds like he is in a bad way mentally and I worry that he could do something to harm you. What is your DH doing in all of this? Your posts suggest that you are dealing with him single handedly.

21Bee · 19/07/2021 17:28

It doesn’t really matter that you haven’t got a written contract, by him paying you rent and you accepting that rent you have created a legal contract.

It’s been a few years since I’ve dealt with residential tenancies, I specialise in agricultural tenancies, but I should think you need to give him notice. I’d try to write him a notice to quit with a one month notice period. It’s really tricky because I don’t think it’s likely that a landlord can become a lodger of his own tenanted property but a residential law specialist should be able to unpick it all. I’d be inclined to say him moving back in means he’s taken possession of the house and has inadvertently made you the lodgers but definitely seek out specialist advice, the cheapest option would obviously be to leave ASAP.

Hollyhocksarenotmessy · 19/07/2021 17:28

You are entitled to stay after November, fixed term ASTs automatically become rolling ones at the end of the fixed term. He can only end your tenancy through a legal eviction notice.

As your guest (not lodger) he has no right to be there and he's breaching your right to quiet enjoyment. Even lodgers have pretty much no rights.

Give him a letter saying you permitted him to stay as a guest but now require him to leave and remove all of his property within 7 days.

I'd also all Shelter for advice on how to handle your landlord forcibly living there and attempting to illegally pressure you to move out.

AwaAnBileYerHeid · 19/07/2021 17:30

Is he allowed an income while on benefits? I thought that some benefits were means tested?

21Bee · 19/07/2021 17:32

I’d also hazard a guess that he is committing benefit fraud and not declaring his rental income, particularly as he is illegally claiming council tax exemption whilst you are living there and paying him council tax.

Theunamedcat · 19/07/2021 17:39

Make sure you remove your wardrobes he might try and claim you damaged his home and keep your deposit

ForensicAccountant · 19/07/2021 17:40

What a mess. How can your landlord be your lodger? Surely, that is not even possible! He is effectively paying rent to himself (if he was paying rent that is).

laalaaland · 19/07/2021 17:40

Oh OP, this is awful. What a nasty piece of work he is. Unfortunately, as you are well aware, you have let your wonderful decent niceness get taken advantage of.

Go for the path of least resistance for your own mental well-being.

You'll soon get back on your feet and get the home you deserve. I'm just so sad and angry this CF has got in the way for you.

Superdoopersoup · 19/07/2021 17:48

I've voted YABU, not for wanting him out of your house, but for being highly complicit in the lead up to it.

Spending money on the 'promise' of the house being sold to you! Taking in your landlord as your lodger!

Why, oh why, oh why? I'm gobsmacked at what you did, never mind the machinations of your landlord. Seems as if you and your DH were up for being taken for a ride, so no wonder your landlord decided to fill his boots.

Biscoffbiscou · 19/07/2021 17:49

People are so contrary on here – sure with hindsight, never mix business with pleasure, etc. but he is clearly being totally unreasonable and wanted to treat the place as his own house while taking rent off you each month. Sounds like a shame this has destroyed what seemed to start out as a supportive friendship and it must be horribly stressful having him there refusing to leave.

AIUI, if he -were- a proper lodger, he would anyway be an excluded occupier with you as mesnae landlord, and it’s often not required to give more than one week‘s notice if you ask someone to leave. You don’t need to start eviction proceedings, you can just call the police.

You’re not asking for anything for the refurbishment you’ve done (I gather you’ve just added that for context about how he has already benefited from the arrangement). So you’re not ‘complaining’ about that, as someone suggested above.

The having family to stay thing also should not be an issue under a normal tenancy – unless there’s something in your contract saying ‘no overnight guests’ or whatever. He doesn’t seem to realise that while he’s renting the place to you, it’s your home and he’s the guest.

He’s being a CF.

BudrosBudrosGalli · 19/07/2021 18:25

Do not rely on the deposit! At this stage, I would stop paying rent altogether though and leave as soon as possible. He has been violating your rights to enjoy the property without harassment and not sticking to any agreements. I would repay in kind.

Mintypylonsfryingsurplus · 19/07/2021 18:27

Thank you all for your information and advice it really is helpful. My DH works long hours and it often on call so is tired when he gets home. My 'friend' is also very careful to start a conversation when he is at work. Like today said he wanted a chat as to why I was ignoring him and when am I handing my notice in? I did tell him that I know my rights and would do so when I ready and not before. He came out with a load if crap he is my lodger and argued the toss with every point I then made.

OP posts:
BrozTito · 19/07/2021 18:27

What a massive bellend. Lodgers have no rights. Good luck though, landlords are saintly matyrs on here, housing us ungrateful, vaping poors out of the goodness of their meek hearts.

pineapplecat21 · 19/07/2021 18:30

He's committing benefit fraud, he isn't entitled to full benefits whilst taking rent off his tenant, you are also paying towards council tax when he's exempt? Also fraud.
Not to mention the amount of landlord laws he's breaking... id threaten to report him and have him removed by the police if he's not gone by the end of today. He has no legal right to be there.

MrsMoastyToasty · 19/07/2021 18:36

There sounds like an element of benefit fraud there too on his part.

Rioja81 · 19/07/2021 18:50

Does it matter if he is entitled to free CT though? Shouldn't the OP be paying it?

givemebooks · 19/07/2021 18:54

Is time to get tough

Firstly look at lodger rates in your area and work out an average price for the 15 weeks he has lived with you, including food and drinks too and all utilities

Do not pay him any more rent and tell him straight he either moves out immediately and you will continue to pay what is owed in rent after deducting his 15 week CF stay! And you will also be reporting him for benifit fraud (renting to you is an income for ESA and should be declared and the council tax is based on who lives in the property not what he is entitled too.)

or if he continues to stay you will deduct what is owed to you for him as a lodger for 15 weeks!! and only continue to pay rent at a level with his "lodger" rent deducted from here out till september

Sounds like you will be living rent free for a while because he owes you lodger rent!

If he plays the he has no lodger contract state you do have a contract for private rental not harassment, stop paying rent and let him have to evict you, fingers crossed he will be charged a bomb for the process and lose in elements to you as landlords cannot just move back in when they want!! Hence your contract!

Your parents staying was a non issue you can have who ever you want stay, he has bullied you out of your rented home.

Also get your DH to remove the wardrobes and fittings to take with you as long as you fill the holes and make good the area there is nothing he can do, your choice but then I am a petty bitch :)

Fingers crossed you will find somewhere else soon or go to your sons I would just in no way put another penny in this CF's pocket

givemebooks · 19/07/2021 18:56

Actually with your contract whats to stop you calling the police and having him removed?

He has no legal right to be there at this time?

I would do this tonight!

DontDrinkDontSmokeWhatDoIDo · 19/07/2021 19:18

OP -'this sound hideous and OMG, how stressful for you.

Too many things to unpick. You're in the right, but it's a mess and your own mental health will suffer.

Can you look for somewhere else and move on ASAP?

Swipe left for the next trending thread