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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To fall out with friend/landlord who has outstayed their welcome

150 replies

Mintypylonsfryingsurplus · 19/07/2021 15:29

Hope you wise lot can advise if I am being unreasonable. Will bullet point as to not drip feed...

Was meant to buy a house with DH last spring
I got Covid and ended up with Long covid (Only recently been discharged from hub)
DH was furloughed too so ended up skint and surviving on deposit money as not entitled to help from government
Landlord wanted to rent house to a family member so we had to find somewhere else at short notice.
Friend who wanted to live abroad said we could rent his property and if we liked it and got ourselves straight could buy it at some point so he could use the money to purchase a property abroad
So September last year, we moved in and have a full AST tenancy agreement. Deposit in a scheme all done correctly.
We are laid back people for the most part and we offered to store his motor home in back garden and his bed/household and garden items should we decide not to buy/ continue with tenancy and he needed to stay there at some point.

As I started to rehabilitate and I thought we would buy the property, we started to decorate (It was tired, and bare no lightshades/curtains etc scuffed and bit grimy and basic)
My DH who is a builder and joiner put fitted wardrobes in all 3 bedrooms and improvements too numerous to mention. Had it not been done by my DH and used companies approx 3.5K of improvements/decorating.

I when feeling better some days as not working did extensive cleaning gardening etc.

Friend /Landlord messages from abroad. The country he is staying in was going into lockdown and he was not very well needed hospital etc he was coming back. As a friend (worried about him) in a pandemic etc I offered that he could come and stay as long as he needed to and get himself sorted.

He returned with his large motor home (he has two) and stayed in a spare room with full use of the house as a guest. after 3 or so days he spoke to me that his plans had changed and he wanted to release the money from his house (owned outright) I said that was find and now we are getting on our feet I would look into getting a mortgage.
Brokers were charging 350 quid so I used an online free service and had a mortgage agreed in principle.

He went into hospital briefly but could not find anything wrong with his stomach at all except lazy bowel and depression.

In April me and DH saw a conservatory on FB selling site which we bought cheaply but took 12 hours to dismantle. We checked with Friend first that he would be okay to erect this as we planned to buy house in future. He agreed to this providing we followed regulations etc.

Friend/Landlord comes out of hospital it is clear he is not in a good place mentally. Will not leave the house, so I do all shopping/ collect laxatives etc from chemists.
Starts to ask when we are doing foundations for Conservatory? Feel a bit pressured so DH takes some annual leave to dig a 18 inch trench and collects material approx 450 quid with concrete mixer etc.

Friend/Landlord changes mind about selling house - not in a good place needs more time etc.

I tell him that now we have a mortgage in place we will look for an alternative home due to our ages and its not a problem. But we will not put the conservatory up now and take it with us. He is not happy due to this, says we have spoilt his garden etc. So we put all back to how it was minus a water feature (dilapidated) and some grass patches which are growing back.

It is clear at this point he is not going anywhere soon. After 4 weeks he pays 100quid into my account as he has been living here and using everything except buyin himself a small amount of fresh food, but uses washing powder/sugar etc.

As stated we are not wealthy right now due to my health etc.

He becomes increasingly picky, told not to vape in house, use tumble drier at certain times/ cook bacon as it makes him feel sick on and on.

Asking when we are taking a small amount of rubbish to tip/ on and on picking

A few weeks ago I was to do a house swap with my parents as we live 4 hours away from each other and catch up with friend and family who we had not seen due to Covid for over a year.

He refused to leave the house so my mum could stay. He said it broke the tenancy agreement and his insurance. My Mum had to cancel many of her 70th birthday plans as a result.

As my son and partner who have worked al through the pandemic as key workers were coming with us we had no choice but to hire a caravan at a cost of 750 quid at short notice. I told friend that I would not pay rent that month due to his refusal to leave . He agreed after a lengthy argument.

Every house we look at has gone to full and final bids and we have been gazumped. As the tension is unbearable my son and his partner have offered for us to live in their flat unti we buy a house.

Frind/landlord then says he wants a receipt for the caravan to claim on his landlords insurance. I told him he needs to leave I am told end of July.

Stop stalking to him as he twists everything I say. He is a very difficult man. Both his children do not speak to him nor he step kids. He has one other friend.

He is now claiming that as I invited him to stay he is a lodger!

My tenancy ends in 7 weeks. So I found out my rights a few weeks back. He has been harassing me when are we leaving. He clearly wants his house back but we have lots to put in storage as the flat is small and who knows how long a house sale could take to go through

I feel harrassed and unsafe in my own home. He confronted me today saying when I was away he spoke to solicitor that he has rights to stay there as a lodger and I need to give him 4 weeks notice!

I have also spoken to a solicitor and am well aware of my tenancy rights. He seemed to back track then and siad he was leaving at end of month to stay with his Nephew for a month.

I told him not to come back until tenancy agreement and notice period ahd ended, and anyway he has a large motor home to live in.

He claims as he gives me 100 a month he has right. he has been here 15 weeks and given me 200 so far which equates to 13.33 a week. WHERE COULD YOU LIVE FOR THAT. He said he only has two showers a week?

Told him no more friendship, he needs to be gone asap and not return. Will store his stuff and camper van on the understanding my deposit gets returned in full and we never speak again.

My DH is at the end of his tether with the conflict and I feel pretty intimidated too.

OP posts:
givemebooks · 20/07/2021 07:49

£389 per month over 52 weeks is £89.77
So for his 15 weeks he owes you £1346.55
Plus money for food for 15 weeks!

So either phone the police and have him removed for trespass immediately!! For your own mental health please do this!!

Or tell him moving forward you will be paying no rent until HIS debt to you is settled and then you will pay your rent with his monthly lodger rate deducted

And remove the wardrobes

StartingGrid · 20/07/2021 09:51

Is your deposit protected? Were you given a guide to rent book, is there a gas safety certificate issued?

LalalalalalaLand123 · 20/07/2021 09:57

Is it technically/legally possible for him to be both your landlord AND your lodger (as he is claiming to be)? Maybe so, but seems really odd.

I am torn between agreeing with advice above to ring police and have him removed for trespassing, or similar (change the locks?); or just getting the hell out of there asap, as he is clearly unstable and nasty, and I think personally I would cut my losses and just go, accepting the finanancial losses - and never, ever have anything to do with this man ever, ever again!!

LalalalalalaLand123 · 20/07/2021 09:58

Were you given a guide to rent book, is there a gas safety certificate issued?

This is a great point, very important in relation to the tenancy OP

21Bee · 20/07/2021 10:19

@Mintypylonsfryingsurplus

I have not given up my AST he moved in by coercion and then started making wild claims. He has paid in total £1.90 a day it hardly covers bills! You couldnt rent space for a tent on a campsite fir that. Its a token amount to cover teabags and milk! The going rate is £389 a month!
I know you haven’t intentionally given your AST up but I think you have inadvertently. You said in your OP that you invited him to stay as long as he wanted and he has proof of this in the form of a text message. The second he moved in, you gave up your exclusive occupation with agreement which is crucial to satisfying the legal terms of a lease. I therefore am pretty convinced that you are now occupying on a licence relying on the Street vs Mountford case.

Additionally even if this wasn’t the case it doesn’t matter what the going rate is in the area, you’d have no recourse to try and get this money from him. You have accepted the £100 more than once so have created a contract.

StrangeToSee · 20/07/2021 10:21

Am I supposed to live in poor housing?
Most landlords would be delighted that tenants take pride in their home and improve it/ pay rent and bills on time!

I’m sorry you’re in such a horrible situation with an awful man.

But many landlords object to tenants ‘improving’ the house without their permission especially permanent changes like fitted wardrobes, painting. Adding a conservatory to a house you don’t own (and spending over 1k renovating) is very bizarre behaviour from tenants especially if you’re saving for a deposit. You knew it was his house and there was always the possibility he’d sell to someone else or decide not to sell.

I think the biggest mistake was inviting him to stay, then assuming he’d still sell to you despite his illness and change of plans.

Legally I’m not sure where you stand as if you forced him out he’d stay in his motor home on the property? Which presumably was in the tenancy agreement?

Mintypylonsfryingsurplus · 20/07/2021 10:34

Historical legal cases aside we live in totally different times due to pandemic. What sort of human being would ignore a friend in help ( when they have no one else) hindsight is a good thing buy had I really known this so called friend who screw me over I would not have agreed. I cant help but feel I am experiencing a very frightening situation

OP posts:
Mintypylonsfryingsurplus · 20/07/2021 10:36

Both motor homes not in the agreement small one been there all the time. Second one large one with shower etc. Been there since May he arrived from abroad in that.

OP posts:
starfishmummy · 20/07/2021 10:41

This is just one huge mess. Irrespective of legal rights to stay I think I would be making plans to move out ASAP.

StrangeToSee · 20/07/2021 11:05

It sounds terrifying.

Can you present to the council as homeless and in need of emergency temp accommodation until you can move?

Or rent a small double studio flat and put your stuff in storage if you can afford to?

If he’s refusing to leave and the police won’t evict him, I wouldn’t jeopardise your safety or mental health by staying in his house.

He isn’t a friend and clearly wasn’t before if you didn’t know what his character is like.

Jasmeen · 20/07/2021 11:46

Just move out! This is not worth the stress. Cut your losses and move out.

CSIblonde · 20/07/2021 12:27

He sounds like a nightmare. Dismantle the wardrobes as you are supposed to leave a property how you found it: then move in with your son in law for a while. It's not worth the gaske fighting him if he's in the house already. Until then , keep your tea,coffee, sugar somewhere he can't get at it . Him sponging when you're paying rent is taking the mick.

StartingGrid · 20/07/2021 12:57

OP, is the deposit registered and protected? If not you're entitled to take him to court for up to 3x the amount! He also can't serve notice on you if it's not!

CreditC0urageCad · 20/07/2021 13:21

I don't understand why you spent a considerable amount on DIY on a property that you don't own ?
Wardrobes, conservatory, garden

He owns the property

So much stress, move out

Mintypylonsfryingsurplus · 20/07/2021 13:38

I have now locked him out if house police are coming as I sent pictures of the gun

OP posts:
LongTimeMammaBear · 20/07/2021 14:15

Oh my. That’s an escalation. Let us know how it pans out.

LuxOlente · 20/07/2021 14:15

It's his house. He can be as vile as he pleases. He could easily make an AIBU that "my tenants keep harping on that they want to buy my house - they act like they own the place!"

Move out!

LuxOlente · 20/07/2021 14:16

Well that'll teach me not to RTFT.

Biscoffbiscou · 20/07/2021 14:16

Hope you’re ok OP. Presumably he’s retired to one of his motor homes? I don’t know the legal situation but my first instinct when I saw your message was “well done”

Biscoffbiscou · 20/07/2021 14:24

@LuxOlente

It's his house. He can be as vile as he pleases. He could easily make an AIBU that "my tenants keep harping on that they want to buy my house - they act like they own the place!"

Move out!

Well it wasn’t quite like that – he indicated he wanted to sell it to them. I don’t think there’s any question or expectation of them buying it now and the OP accepted it gracefully when he changed his mind on selling.

Think the AIBU is that he’s rented the house to them then moved back in himself and started being an aggressive arsehole. Obviously if he hadn’t been a friend she’d have said no to him stopping with them but she was being kind considering his situation and probably would have not wanted to damage their friendship by saying no – he’s taken advantage of the fact they were mates and now turned hostile.

TheViewFromTheCheapSeats · 20/07/2021 14:36

Well it’s massively escalated!
But remember he has few rights once asked to leave, in fact if he has an excluded tenancy as he’s claiming then his reasonable notice period is the rental period. Then change the locks or whatever.

StrangeToSee · 20/07/2021 14:51

Did the police come?

Hope you’re ok OP

Mintypylonsfryingsurplus · 20/07/2021 15:24

Thank you all for your kind words and support. After locking him out I sent picture of gun to police as requested and locked doors and windows. Put keys in lock so he cant come in. He called police saying I locked him out and needed medication and wallet. They explained to him I was frightened and he needed to leave asap and not return under any circumstances until tenancy over. My DH come home from work. We packed all his stuff and put in front garden he came around to get and started again saying Invited him to stay! I said enough now. You leave and do not come back. I stated I will continue to adhere to my contract and pay rent etc. He then said no hard feelings and sorry it turned out this way. My gut feeling is that I might shop him for benefit fraud so probably now playing nice to damage limitation. Still looking for a house though and If I can leave before November I will. DH is a builder so will change locks and install cctv. I have also reiterated to police officer that I am scared of payback revenge etc. She said to call 999 with case no. If he comes back without 24 hour written notice. The only sticking point is I sent a long statement email to him last night giving him until end of month. But also the situation may change. If he challenges this I have police backing me up with pic will say ongoing intolerable harrassment so things changed quickly. Then if he tries to sue me I will stop paying rent. Evections take a long time atm and legally he cant come back until I formally leave which is why he playing nicey nice. Its been hell. I am only just starting to feel safer. All because I showed another person compassion and kindness. Its made me be harder and more hardline that I like. For that alone I will never forgive him.

OP posts:
Biscoffbiscou · 20/07/2021 16:08

Well done OP, sounds like you’ve been through a total ordeal, the stress of someone in your space harassing you like that cannot be underestimated. Hopefully now you’ve got him out you can plan your next move in peace.

Mintypylonsfryingsurplus · 20/07/2021 17:17

The relief is huge. I certainly would not have long term guests ever again. But its so good to get my personal space back could literally cry with relief

OP posts:
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