To think most of MN don’t know what having no money means

[icecolddrinks]

And that admitting to having none is humiliating.

I see it here all the time. Someone has no money. Someone suggests something to make life easier. The person says again they have no money. MN suggest a cheaper version.

On the thread about dress up so many people were saying to tell the school.

I know debt and low incomes aren’t ideal but they aren’t uncommon either so why is it so hard to acknowledge that someone might have 3p in their bank account and no money?

I get that people don't understand, what I don't get is why they offer advice. It's laughable. What on earth could a financially secure person know about dealing with poverty? The level of arrogance and smuggery is breathtaking. Rather like the social media nobodies lining up to tell epidemiologists how to manage a virus outbreak. It's so delusional as to be cringey.

If you are genuinely curious about something, ask someone who knows - and listen when they tell you. Try really hard not to talk over them (I'm looking at you @TwinsandTrifle)

We live in a country that has a bloody royal family, who recently found it necessary to tell their junior members that no, tax payers shouldn’t have to fork over millions for you every year if you can’t be bothered even to wave once in a while. Where politicians and bankers squirrel away millions into overseas tax havens. Where landlords can own tens of properties - I heard of one in London who owned over a thousand properties, in London, ffs! A country where half of all the land in England is owned by less than 1% of the people.

But sure, have a go at the despairing mother with a son with no school shoes having a drink, or having a phone (forgotten already about e-learning over lockdown?), or a video game to keep their lad off the streets.

She and her son will know how much wealth others have too, probably. I certainly did as the child growing up with nothing.

@PickUpAPepper yep

I had to raid all the change I could find today to buy the bits I needed for lunch for my DC.

My DD event her latest swimming level this week and I can't afford the 3.85 for the badge.

Fortunately we are only temporarily in this position thanks to moving with a grand total of 8 days notice (being in social housing it wasn't acceptable to have a bit more notice apparantly!). We haven't got into debt which is my saving grace but things have been very very tight for 3 weeks and will likely be for the next 6-9 weeks to get back on track.

I can not fathom this being months and years on end.

@PickUpAPepper

We live in a country that has a bloody royal family, who recently found it necessary to tell their junior members that no, tax payers shouldn’t have to fork over millions for you every year if you can’t be bothered even to wave once in a while. Where politicians and bankers squirrel away millions into overseas tax havens. Where landlords can own tens of properties - I heard of one in London who owned over a thousand properties, in London, ffs! A country where half of all the land in England is owned by less than 1% of the people.

But sure, have a go at the despairing mother with a son with no school shoes having a drink, or having a phone (forgotten already about e-learning over lockdown?), or a video game to keep their lad off the streets.

She and her son will know how much wealth others have too, probably. I certainly did as the child growing up with nothing.

👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼

I know a very wealthy family. They travel extensively with their DC. Mum of family constantly goes on about how she doesn't give her children things, she gives them experiences and memories, as if this makes her superior. What she fails to grasp is that I can afford a trip to the toy shop and give my DC £10 to treat them. I can't afford four return tickets to Borneo.

In a similar vein, at my DC school, a group of parents keep organising these competitions and challenges to get kids active. All very laudable and should, in theory, be accessible to all. However, the middle class kids from wealthy families are the kids who overwhelmingly participate. Why? They have all the gear, the outdoor clothing, good quality footwear, bikes etc. People take these things for granted

When I was 18 I spent a while living in a squat. I accessed this damp hovel through a hole in a window. I was also pregnant.
Back the NFA equalled no benefits and any money I did have was taken by the abusive man I was with for drugs. I lived on tins of french onion soup from the local bargain shop. On a good day I was able to pay for them.

Sometimes I sit and look at my life now, a world away from that one and think how the fuck did I get here. I have a lovely home, a wonderful DH and savings. I appreciate every penny we have because I do know what it’s like to have to count out your last 60p for a can of soup and not know if it’s the only thing you’ll eat that week.

@Comedycook

I know a very wealthy family. They travel extensively with their DC. Mum of family constantly goes on about how she doesn't give her children things, she gives them experiences and memories, as if this makes her superior. What she fails to grasp is that I can afford a trip to the toy shop and give my DC £10 to treat them. I can't afford four return tickets to Borneo.

In a similar vein, at my DC school, a group of parents keep organising these competitions and challenges to get kids active. All very laudable and should, in theory, be accessible to all. However, the middle class kids from wealthy families are the kids who overwhelmingly participate. Why? They have all the gear, the outdoor clothing, good quality footwear, bikes etc. People take these things for granted

She sounds like a massive twat. Money certainly does not buy wisdom or tact.

As an NHS nurse I am not allowed to accept personal gifts which I think is absolutely correct. It is time school heads took this approach and banned the giving of gifts to teachers. Many people cannot afford to be involved in this sycophantic practice.

Who is having a go at any despairing mother, PickupaPepper?

Goodness me your post smacks of bitterness and a huge chip on your shoulder.

Many of us are or have been extremely hard up, breadline, we don't carry on like you and are not jealous of anyone better off.

Resentment is ugly.

Last week we had swathes people absolutely insistent that MOST of MN (and IRL) have several days per week when they have literally no money.

Now, this week, apparently most of MN don’t know what having no money means.

Everyone lives in their bubble and thinks the majority of people live like them, because the majority, if not all, people around them do.

@Maggiesfarm

Who is having a go at any despairing mother, PickupaPepper?

Goodness me your post smacks of bitterness and a huge chip on your shoulder.

Many of us are or have been extremely hard up, breadline, we don't carry on like you and are not jealous of anyone better off.

Resentment is ugly.

Have you read the full thread? Plenty of posts berating women for frivolities.

@ELOU1111

As an NHS nurse I am not allowed to accept personal gifts which I think is absolutely correct. It is time school heads took this approach and banned the giving of gifts to teachers. Many people cannot afford to be involved in this sycophantic practice.

I agree with this. Ridiculous to buy gifts for a person for doing their job

PrettyLittleFlies:

Have you read the full thread? Plenty of posts berating women for frivolities.
..........
I've dipped in and out since the thread started.

Nobody should berate someone else for being poor and everyone deserves the occasional treat.

However being resentful of those who are well off is hardly helpful.

@PrettyLittleFlies but is buying a teacher gift any different to tipping a waitress or taxi driver.

I don't remember doing teacher gifts as a child. But I really appreciate a good teacher.

@ELOU1111

As an NHS nurse I am not allowed to accept personal gifts which I think is absolutely correct. It is time school heads took this approach and banned the giving of gifts to teachers. Many people cannot afford to be involved in this sycophantic practice.

I hadn't even thought of this, but yes absolutely, it's regarded as a safeguarding matter for some situations in care for workers to accept gifts, I assume the same applies in healthcare.

And not just because of the obvious risks of exploitation but because it can also lead someone to believe they are 'buying' your favour, for want of a better phrase, which puts those who can't do it at a potential disadvantage.
Healthcare, social care and education are supposed to be given equally and without bias, it's already not allowed in healthcare and social care - so why is it allowed in education when the same parameters apply?

Giving the gift at the end of the school year, your child is unlikely to be working with them again. So not buying favour.

[quote Lockdownbear]@PrettyLittleFlies but is buying a teacher gift any different to tipping a waitress or taxi driver.

I don't remember doing teacher gifts as a child. But I really appreciate a good teacher.[/quote]
I used to buy them but now I wonder why I bothered. Of course they should do a great job, we all should.

@Maggiesfarm

PrettyLittleFlies: Have you read the full thread? Plenty of posts berating women for frivolities. .......... I've dipped in and out since the thread started.

Nobody should berate someone else for being poor and everyone deserves the occasional treat.

However being resentful of those who are well off is hardly helpful.

I can only speak for myself, but I'm not resentful of others who are well off, I'm sensible enough to realise that we need all levels of society for it to function. What I am resentful of is my level, my contribution, which is not financial but practical in supporting society being dismissed, and me being dismissed as lazy, entitled and uninspired because I do the job I do. It's ironic to say the least when a lot of people are benefitting from the job I do, and get so little in return for. At being the bottom of the pile, but expected to be the most socially responsible. At being sneered at, and lectured about apparently how I would have enough to live on if I didn't squander it all on booze, fags, tattoos, drugs and wide-screen TVs, by people who have no idea what it's actually like and refuse to listen when others who have that experience try to tell them.

I can deal with being paid little to do the job I do, I don't do it for the money, but that doesn't mean my life is free either, I still need to pay bills and have fuel and eat food.
I can deal with the ignorance and sneering too, God knows I'm used to it, but I absolutely will challenge it where I see it, I realise some people think, by virtue of the amount in my bank account, I don't have the right morally, because I'm not supposed to be smart enough or clued up enough to challenge my 'betters' and that by doing so I'm breaking some unspoken rule of the poor just putting up and shutting up, well I don't care about that rule and I will continue to do it.

@ELOU1111

As an NHS nurse I am not allowed to accept personal gifts which I think is absolutely correct. It is time school heads took this approach and banned the giving of gifts to teachers. Many people cannot afford to be involved in this sycophantic practice.

I don't know where you get the sycophantic aspect from.

I can assure you no teacher expects a gift. If any gratitude is felt to be needed to be expressed, email the teacher thanking them.

@ELOU1111 I've never known a nurse refuse a box of chocolates/tin of luxury biscuits and the obstetrician who looked after me when pg with dd didn't send back the half case of claret DH sent

I remember when lockdown hit and the libraries closed. It made me very sad. I remember when we used to be on benefits and dm used to take us to the library often, especially during the Christmas holidays. Later on she admitted, the library offers free heating and light. Not to mention free entertainment. But she sent us there mainly for the free heat and light.

I imagine people where using it for more things nowadays. Like the free Internet and activities, which includes children under 5 being offered a piece of fruit after the library official story time. At least our local library did this before lockdown.
I still take my dc to the library, because it is great 👍. So I don't know if they offer more stuff to people who need it now.

You know what just occurred to me literally right now

I don’t obsessively check my bank account multiple roomed a day anymore. I check it in the morning and that’s enough.

That’s a big mental stress off me. Right there. Because I have enough money now.

Many people live in areas where the benefit cap makes a huge difference, and they have to use money supposed to be for living expenses towards the rent

Yes but the rent is based on the average for that style of property in that area. The average. For their specific area.

OP, you are conflating the benefit cap and the local housing allowance (LHA).

The benefit cap is the same all over the country except for London, where it's higher. It's the same in Bassetlaw as it is in Brighton, but rents in Brighton are 2.5 times those in Bassetlaw. So if two benefit-capped families have identical circumstances other than geography, and therefore rent, the family in Brighton will be far worse off because they will have to pay a lot more towards their rent.

And the local housing allowance is not based on average rent for size of property, but on an average of the bottom 30% of private sector rents for that size of property. In years when CPI inflation is less than the rise in rents, the increase in LHA is restricted to CPI, so it isn't even an average (thank you for that one, Osborne and Cameron) So the shittiest, most run down of properties in the roughest areas are the only ones that are affordable for poor families.

Even so, in much of the SE and other high-rent areas, it is near impossible to find a private rental at or below the LHA rate. Rightmove currently has one 3-bed property that's not above the LHA for the Brighton Broad Rental Market Area, which extends from Shoreham to Newhaven and a good 10 miles or so inland from the coast. People on low incomes are forced to live a long way from the main centre of employment, so if they are in work, they have to pay significant commuting costs and cannot take jobs that involve working unsocial hours because there would be no public transport available for some shifts.

@Greenwateringcan

You know what just occurred to me literally right now

I don’t obsessively check my bank account multiple roomed a day anymore. I check it in the morning and that’s enough.

That’s a big mental stress off me. Right there. Because I have enough money now.

I can relate. I check mine multiple times a day and feel physically sick when the notification pings to say something has happened in my account. Regularly hold my breath when waiting to see if my last couple of quid has been taken